By using this site, you agree to our updated Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Manage your Cookies Settings.
435,376 Members | 3,024 Online
Bytes IT Community
+ Ask a Question
Need help? Post your question and get tips & solutions from a community of 435,376 IT Pros & Developers. It's quick & easy.

Who controls improvements in Access

P: n/a
I've always thought that the talking heads, the people that write Access
mags, the "gurus" that tout themselves as being the true masters of
Access tell MS what they want.

How does a lowly real-world developer, not some talking head pundit
touter, ever get MS to hear them?

Years ago they had something like a Wishlist, but I've always thought
that's pretty much a circular file.
Nov 13 '05 #1
Share this Question
Share on Google+
14 Replies


P: n/a
"Salad" <oi*@vinegar.com> wrote
I've always thought that the talking
heads, the people that write Access
mags, the "gurus" that tout themselves
as being the true masters of
Access tell MS what they want.

How does a lowly real-world developer,
not some talking head pundit
touter, ever get MS to hear them?

Years ago they had something like a
Wishlist, but I've always thought
that's pretty much a circular file.


Just for the record, none of the MVPs with whom I am acquainted, including
yours truly, either answer to "guru" nor "tout ourselves as the true masters
of Access". We have "spent more time with our backs to the wall" than some
and volunteer our time and effort to assist other users. I do so because
many people helped me over the years and all most of them asked was that I
pass on the help to someone who needed it when I was able -- and I have a
lot of "paying back" that way to do.

Microsoft also has an MVP Wish list, but each of the wish lists are only one
of the many sources of information Microsoft considers, and it may take
multiple versions of Access for even an accepted idea to make it into the
product. And, many of the suggestions never make it in. I, frankly, suspect
that requests that come back to them from their larger enterprise customers
via their sales force probably gets the most attention.

When I worked for a large company that created and sold software (among
other things), it had a "competitive analysis department" who analyzed
competitive products and customer situations where the customer had chosen
between our and others' products -- I suspect, but do not know, that
Microsoft has a similar function. If they do, a trend of "we lost that bid
because the competitor had function 'X' and we do not" would get someone's
attention rather quickly.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP
Nov 13 '05 #2

P: n/a

"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in message
news:7x1se.5838$1q5.3779@trnddc02...
"Salad" <oi*@vinegar.com> wrote
I've always thought that the talking
heads, the people that write Access
mags, the "gurus" that tout themselves
as being the true masters of
Access tell MS what they want.

How does a lowly real-world developer,
not some talking head pundit
touter, ever get MS to hear them?

Years ago they had something like a
Wishlist, but I've always thought
that's pretty much a circular file.


Just for the record, none of the MVPs with whom I am acquainted, including
yours truly, either answer to "guru" nor "tout ourselves as the true
masters
of Access". We have "spent more time with our backs to the wall" than some
and volunteer our time and effort to assist other users. I do so because
many people helped me over the years and all most of them asked was that I
pass on the help to someone who needed it when I was able -- and I have a
lot of "paying back" that way to do.

Microsoft also has an MVP Wish list, but each of the wish lists are only
one
of the many sources of information Microsoft considers, and it may take
multiple versions of Access for even an accepted idea to make it into the
product. And, many of the suggestions never make it in. I, frankly,
suspect
that requests that come back to them from their larger enterprise
customers
via their sales force probably gets the most attention.

When I worked for a large company that created and sold software (among
other things), it had a "competitive analysis department" who analyzed
competitive products and customer situations where the customer had chosen
between our and others' products -- I suspect, but do not know, that
Microsoft has a similar function. If they do, a trend of "we lost that bid
because the competitor had function 'X' and we do not" would get someone's
attention rather quickly.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP


Well Donnie must be really bored or gone totally bonkers to spend all this
time trying to impersonate me. It's indeed a pitiful sight to see how
Donnie struggles to imagine what it might be like to be an MVP and a
professional developer. Although, I will admit he seems to have gotten my
style down pretty well. But that just proves he has too much time on his
hands or he's off his meds again.


Nov 13 '05 #3

P: n/a

"Larry Linson" <no****@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:1118884875.60b3388b2eaa03c440d6524932e4c470@t eranews...

"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in message
news:7x1se.5838$1q5.3779@trnddc02...
"Salad" <oi*@vinegar.com> wrote
I've always thought that the talking
heads, the people that write Access
mags, the "gurus" that tout themselves
as being the true masters of
Access tell MS what they want.

How does a lowly real-world developer,
not some talking head pundit
touter, ever get MS to hear them?

Years ago they had something like a
Wishlist, but I've always thought
that's pretty much a circular file.


Just for the record, none of the MVPs with whom I am acquainted, including yours truly, either answer to "guru" nor "tout ourselves as the true
masters
of Access". We have "spent more time with our backs to the wall" than some and volunteer our time and effort to assist other users. I do so because
many people helped me over the years and all most of them asked was that I pass on the help to someone who needed it when I was able -- and I have a lot of "paying back" that way to do.

Microsoft also has an MVP Wish list, but each of the wish lists are only
one
of the many sources of information Microsoft considers, and it may take
multiple versions of Access for even an accepted idea to make it into the product. And, many of the suggestions never make it in. I, frankly,
suspect
that requests that come back to them from their larger enterprise
customers
via their sales force probably gets the most attention.

When I worked for a large company that created and sold software (among
other things), it had a "competitive analysis department" who analyzed
competitive products and customer situations where the customer had chosen between our and others' products -- I suspect, but do not know, that
Microsoft has a similar function. If they do, a trend of "we lost that bid because the competitor had function 'X' and we do not" would get someone's attention rather quickly.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP


Well Donnie must be really bored or gone totally bonkers to spend all this
time trying to impersonate me. It's indeed a pitiful sight to see how
Donnie struggles to imagine what it might be like to be an MVP and a
professional developer. Although, I will admit he seems to have gotten my
style down pretty well. But that just proves he has too much time on his
hands or he's off his meds again.


Interesting, that Don should impersonate my debunking an impersonation of
me. Yep, he's got 'way, 'way too much time on his hands. Don, I wish you
lots of luck in finding work.
Nov 13 '05 #4

P: n/a
Larry Linson wrote:
"Salad" <oi*@vinegar.com> wrote
> I've always thought that the talking
> heads, the people that write Access
> mags, the "gurus" that tout themselves
> as being the true masters of
> Access tell MS what they want.
>
> How does a lowly real-world developer,
> not some talking head pundit
> touter, ever get MS to hear them?
>
> Years ago they had something like a
> Wishlist, but I've always thought
> that's pretty much a circular file.
Just for the record, none of the MVPs with whom I am acquainted, including
yours truly, either answer to "guru" nor "tout ourselves as the true masters
of Access". We have "spent more time with our backs to the wall" than some
and volunteer our time and effort to assist other users.


I don't consider those of us in Usenet of any use to MS. I think they
tend to ingore us riff-raff. The listen more to those that haven't a
clue but think they do.

I do so because many people helped me over the years and all most of them asked was that I
pass on the help to someone who needed it when I was able -- and I have a
lot of "paying back" that way to do.
I was doing the same in BBSs with older technologies. I suppose the
same is with you. That is why we support Usenet...not because of fame
and fortune but simeply under the "user helping user" mode.
Microsoft also has an MVP Wish list, but each of the wish lists are only one
of the many sources of information Microsoft considers, and it may take
multiple versions of Access for even an accepted idea to make it into the
product. And, many of the suggestions never make it in. I, frankly, suspect
that requests that come back to them from their larger enterprise customers
via their sales force probably gets the most attention.
I suspsect you are right. A brain dead company would not have someone
monitoring usenet groups. I think MS is one of them.
When I worked for a large company that created and sold software (among
other things), it had a "competitive analysis department" who analyzed
competitive products and customer situations where the customer had chosen
between our and others' products -- I suspect, but do not know, that
Microsoft has a similar function. If they do, a trend of "we lost that bid
because the competitor had function 'X' and we do not" would get someone's
attention rather quickly.
Oh, I am sure they competitiely analyze competitors. But I don;'t think
they analysze newsgroups.


Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP

Nov 13 '05 #5

P: n/a
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:54:13 GMT, Salad <oi*@vinegar.com> wrote:

I have sometimes thought about trying to shame them into fixing
things. For example using a webpage that tracks problems, since when
they have been outstanding, and what the status is:

Issue: cannot drag-n-drop an MDB file on the titlebar of MsAccess
First reported: Access 2.0 (1992)
Status: Capability available in other Office products for years, but
still not in A2003 11 years later.

Magazine writers love pages like this, so they don't have to do all
the research themselves.
With every new release of the product, the website would publish a
Satisfaction Index, showing by what percentage the shame list has been
reduced.

-Tom.
I've always thought that the talking heads, the people that write Access
mags, the "gurus" that tout themselves as being the true masters of
Access tell MS what they want.

How does a lowly real-world developer, not some talking head pundit
touter, ever get MS to hear them?

Years ago they had something like a Wishlist, but I've always thought
that's pretty much a circular file.


Nov 13 '05 #6

P: n/a
Tom van Stiphout wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:54:13 GMT, Salad <oi*@vinegar.com> wrote:

I have sometimes thought about trying to shame them into fixing
things. For example using a webpage that tracks problems, since when
they have been outstanding, and what the status is:

Issue: cannot drag-n-drop an MDB file on the titlebar of MsAccess
First reported: Access 2.0 (1992)
Status: Capability available in other Office products for years, but
still not in A2003 11 years later.

Magazine writers love pages like this, so they don't have to do all
the research themselves.
With every new release of the product, the website would publish a
Satisfaction Index, showing by what percentage the shame list has been
reduced.

-Tom.

That's a great idea. One would almost think the magazines themselves
could put up such a page.
I've always thought that the talking heads, the people that write Access
mags, the "gurus" that tout themselves as being the true masters of
Access tell MS what they want.

How does a lowly real-world developer, not some talking head pundit
touter, ever get MS to hear them?

Years ago they had something like a Wishlist, but I've always thought
that's pretty much a circular file.


Nov 13 '05 #7

P: n/a
Well, I think Microsoft appreciates people who use newsgroups to assist the
Microsoft user base -- only recently have they appointed any significant
number of MVPs on the basis of things other than the quantity and quality of
the answers they provided in newsgroups.

Larry Linson
Nov 13 '05 #8

P: n/a
In microsoft.public.access I read some posts by Sharkbyte and thought,
"His writing style looks familiar." I noticed Sharkbyte was
knowledgeable enough that he/she has probably posted to
comp.databases.ms-access. I did a usage study based on somewhat unique
phrases found in his/her posts like "I do know" and "I have found that"
using Google with double quotes around the search string. I chose
about ten such phrases and believe it or not, David W. Fenton's
correlation was three times higher than anyone else's; he had matched
every single one of the ten phrases exactly somewhere in
comp.databases.ms-access. I realize this method does not prove the
identity of Sharkbyte (perhaps Sharkbyte was strongly influenced by the
language in David's posts), but the correlation was somewhat of a
surprise. Also, the volume of David's posts could be a contributing
factor. As a tangent to that study I noticed that Larry Linson, who
has been a strong contributor to this group for many, many years, and
Don Mellon, who provides comic relief, share many of the same language
ideosyncrasies even when Larry is not being impersonated. I don't know
what to make of all this, especially since about five other personae
correlated well with these two but not as strongly. Maybe "I" just had
too much time on my hands. But the possibility of Larry and Don being
the same person would put this particular thread in an interesting
light. Also note that there will never be repercussions when you
imitate yourself :-). If any of these hypotheses are correct (and
that's all that they are), I suspect the personae will be more careful
in the future. I should also check to see if the personae ganged up on
someone, causing someone to be surrounded and outgunned by one person
:-).

James A. Fortune

Nov 13 '05 #9

P: n/a

<ji********@compumarc.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
In microsoft.public.access I read some posts by Sharkbyte and thought,
"His writing style looks familiar." I noticed Sharkbyte was
knowledgeable enough that he/she has probably posted to
comp.databases.ms-access. I did a usage study based on somewhat unique
phrases found in his/her posts like "I do know" and "I have found that"
using Google with double quotes around the search string. I chose
about ten such phrases and believe it or not, David W. Fenton's
correlation was three times higher than anyone else's; he had matched
every single one of the ten phrases exactly somewhere in
comp.databases.ms-access. I realize this method does not prove the
identity of Sharkbyte (perhaps Sharkbyte was strongly influenced by the
language in David's posts), but the correlation was somewhat of a
surprise. Also, the volume of David's posts could be a contributing
factor. As a tangent to that study I noticed that Larry Linson, who
has been a strong contributor to this group for many, many years, and
Don Mellon, who provides comic relief, share many of the same language
ideosyncrasies even when Larry is not being impersonated. I don't know
what to make of all this, especially since about five other personae
correlated well with these two but not as strongly. Maybe "I" just had
too much time on my hands. But the possibility of Larry and Don being
the same person would put this particular thread in an interesting
light. Also note that there will never be repercussions when you
imitate yourself :-). If any of these hypotheses are correct (and
that's all that they are), I suspect the personae will be more careful
in the future. I should also check to see if the personae ganged up on
someone, causing someone to be surrounded and outgunned by one person
:-).

James A. Fortune

<shrug>
Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Nov 13 '05 #10

P: n/a
rkc
Tony Toews wrote:
<ji********@compumarc.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
In microsoft.public.access I read some posts by Sharkbyte and thought,
"His writing style looks familiar." I noticed Sharkbyte was
knowledgeable enough that he/she has probably posted to
comp.databases.ms-access. I did a usage study based on somewhat unique
phrases found in his/her posts like "I do know" and "I have found that"
using Google with double quotes around the search string.

<shrug>
Tony


Agreed.
Nov 13 '05 #11

P: n/a
ji********@compumarc.com wrote in
news:11**********************@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com:
In microsoft.public.access I read some posts by Sharkbyte and
thought, "His writing style looks familiar." I noticed Sharkbyte
was knowledgeable enough that he/she has probably posted to
comp.databases.ms-access. I did a usage study based on somewhat
unique phrases found in his/her posts like "I do know" and "I have
found that" using Google with double quotes around the search
string. I chose about ten such phrases and believe it or not,
David W. Fenton's correlation was three times higher than anyone
else's; he had matched every single one of the ten phrases exactly
somewhere in comp.databases.ms-access. I realize this method does
not prove the identity of Sharkbyte (perhaps Sharkbyte was
strongly influenced by the language in David's posts), but the
correlation was somewhat of a surprise. Also, the volume of
David's posts could be a contributing factor. As a tangent to
that study I noticed that Larry Linson, who has been a strong
contributor to this group for many, many years, and Don Mellon,
who provides comic relief, share many of the same language
ideosyncrasies even when Larry is not being impersonated. I don't
know what to make of all this, especially since about five other
personae correlated well with these two but not as strongly.
Maybe "I" just had too much time on my hands. But the possibility
of Larry and Don being the same person would put this particular
thread in an interesting light. Also note that there will never
be repercussions when you imitate yourself :-). If any of these
hypotheses are correct (and that's all that they are), I suspect
the personae will be more careful in the future. I should also
check to see if the personae ganged up on someone, causing someone
to be surrounded and outgunned by one person


On the issue of identity, examine the headers of Sharkbyte's posts
and you'll see they have nothing in common with mine.

Likewise, view the entire Google archive of all my posts in Usenet,
ever, and you'll see I've always signed my full name, in every forum
I've every posted.

If the correlation routine you're using doesn't examine these
factors, then it's not very smart.

I don't need to do any correlations to recognize someone who is
enough like Don Mellon to deserve being plonked.

<PLONK>

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
Nov 13 '05 #12

P: n/a
David I thought this post was produced by Don which is why I did not
bother to respond. Whenever I see TeraNews in the Message header of this
type of post I just assume it is Don.

I was hoping James himself would respond in correction. Perhaps he
missed this thread as the post seems to be quite out of character for
James.

--

Stephen Lebans
http://www.lebans.com
Access Code, Tips and Tricks
Please respond only to the newsgroups so everyone can benefit.
"David W. Fenton" <dX********@bway.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@24.168.1 28.78...
ji********@compumarc.com wrote in
news:11**********************@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com:

I don't need to do any correlations to recognize someone who is
enough like Don Mellon to deserve being plonked.

<PLONK>

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc


Nov 13 '05 #13

P: n/a

Stephen Lebans wrote:
I was hoping James himself would respond in correction. Perhaps he
missed this thread as the post seems to be quite out of character for
James.


Stephen, I thank you for your polite words. Although out of character,
the post was, alas, mine. I apologize for any offense taken by David
or others from it. Like David, I've always signed and used only my own
name. So far, no one has ever impersonated me that I am aware of. It
is the first time anyone has ever plonked me though. I guess I
deserved it. It was still quite a surprise to see so many of
Sharkbyte's phrases used by David. I was simply trying to get a handle
on who is doing what. The jokesters in this NG, personally, have been
quite an annoyance. Plus, I take extra care to indulge those who have
made positive contributions to this NG. I feel like I have also made
some positive contributions and thank those that have helped to make
this NG such a great place.

James A. Fortune

Nov 13 '05 #14

P: n/a
<ji********@compumarc.com> wrote
. . . As a tangent to that study I noticed
that Larry Linson, who has been a strong
contributor to this group for many, many
years, and Don Mellon, who provides
comic relief, share many of the same language
ideosyncrasies even when Larry is not
being impersonated.


It is true that if you Google a bit, you'll find that I've been posting to
this newsgroup since its creation. Because I posted from several different
domains over the years, you'll find I have used some different userids, but
none not identifiable to me.

I'm flattered that anyone, even Don P Mellon, might be sufficiently
impressed to adopt my language patterns, but I have not impersonated him. I
don't know if he is still listed there, but a few years back, a People
Search at Yahoo showed a Don P Mellon and a Marsha Mellon in Ennis, Montana,
an area served by the apparently-valid e-mail domain Don used in his posts.
Perhaps all those posts were someone else impersonating _an innocent party
in Ennis_?

But, alas, what a disappointment: I thought my style was "inimitable".
<GRUMBLE>

Larry Linson
Nov 13 '05 #15

This discussion thread is closed

Replies have been disabled for this discussion.