WEB Integration of Access Database/System

[John Baker]

Hi:

I am URGENTLY in need of some book or web site OR tool that will help me integrate a
relatively simple access application into a web page or pages. This is a time recording
system (by project), and I would be more than wiling to pull the updated database down
from the Host using FTP on a monthly basis. Its just that I need to understand how to set
it up on the web site itself. The Host supports SQL.

Any direction you can give would be much appreciated. I know Access 97 had a wizard that
permitted the creation of web pages, and wonder if that wizard is available as an add on
to other versions of Access.

Thank You

John Baker

[billmiami2]

John,

Some questions...

*Does "urgent" mean that you need it done very quickly?

*Should users be able to input information as well as view information
from the web or is this simply for reporting purposes?

*Will the number of users increase as a result of publishing the
application to the web?

*Do you expect the web application to eventually replace the MS Access
application?

*Will the web server be located on your network or will you use a third
party hosting service?

Bill Ehrreich
Hollywood, FL

John Baker wrote:

Hi:

I am URGENTLY in need of some book or web site OR tool that will help me integrate a relatively simple access application into a web page or pages. This is a time recording system (by project), and I would be more than wiling to pull the updated database down from the Host using FTP on a monthly basis. Its just that I need to understand how to set it up on the web site itself. The Host supports SQL.

Any direction you can give would be much appreciated. I know Access 97 had a wizard that permitted the creation of web pages, and wonder if that wizard is available as an add on to other versions of Access.

Thank You

John Baker

[billmiami2]

John,

Some questions...

*Does "urgent" mean that you need it done very quickly?

*Should users be able to input information as well as view information
from the web or is this simply for reporting purposes?

*Will the number of users increase as a result of publishing the
application to the web?

*Do you expect the web application to eventually replace the MS Access
application?

*Will the web server be located on your network or will you use a third
party hosting service?

Bill Ehrreich
Hollywood, FL

John Baker wrote:

Hi:

I am URGENTLY in need of some book or web site OR tool that will help me integrate a relatively simple access application into a web page or pages. This is a time recording system (by project), and I would be more than wiling to pull the updated database down from the Host using FTP on a monthly basis. Its just that I need to understand how to set it up on the web site itself. The Host supports SQL.

Any direction you can give would be much appreciated. I know Access 97 had a wizard that permitted the creation of web pages, and wonder if that wizard is available as an add on to other versions of Access.

Thank You

John Baker

[John Baker]

bi********@netscape.net wrote:

John,

Some questions...

*Does "urgent" mean that you need it done very quickly? It means that I need to get it done in the next few months, at as low a cost a possible,
and uncertain about the right way to go about it at the moment..

*Should users be able to input information as well as view information
from the web or is this simply for reporting purposes?
It is a time collection application, so YES users will be putting in data (time by day by
project).
*Will the number of users increase as a result of publishing the
application to the web?
The number will increase modestly (20-40) but as a result of organizational growth, not as
a result of the web application.
*Do you expect the web application to eventually replace the MS Access
application?
NO the web application is a feed to a back end Invoice and Payroll Access application. We
currently use an Excel spreadsheet, running on individual systems, combined with e-mail.
*Will the web server be located on your network or will you use a third
party hosting service?
3rd Party Host.

Bill Ehrreich
Hollywood, FL

John Baker wrote:

Hi:

I am URGENTLY in need of some book or web site OR tool that will help

me integrate a

relatively simple access application into a web page or pages. This

is a time recording

system (by project), and I would be more than wiling to pull the

updated database down

from the Host using FTP on a monthly basis. Its just that I need to

understand how to set

it up on the web site itself. The Host supports SQL.

Any direction you can give would be much appreciated. I know Access

97 had a wizard that

permitted the creation of web pages, and wonder if that wizard is

available as an add on

to other versions of Access.

Thank You

John Baker

[Albert D. Kallal]

>>*Will the web server be located on your network or will you use a third

party hosting service?

3rd Party Host.

Well, since ms-access has really NOTHING to do with a web based system, then
it really does not mater what database you use on the web server...does it?
You might be able to find a web provider that supports the use of a
ms-access mdb file. All this means is that the software (the web software
YOU will have to write) will read data from the mdb file. However, for all
intensive purposes, you are NOT really using ms-access anymore. (the forms,
reports, Code are all useless in this case). So, for example, if that
provider supports the placing of a mdb file on their server, you STILL DO
NOT HAVE to install ms-access on that server. The only part that gets
installed on the web server is the JET database engine that allows the web
site to USE the data.

JET is the same data engine that VB6 developers, or .net developers use to
read, and write the mdb file format. So, really, you not using ms-access at
all anymore here (the web server only needs a way to read the data). Since
you are only reading (or updating) the data, and NOT using the application
part, then at the end of the day, you can use sql server, or MySql, or
whatever database engine that the web provider supports. Transferring data
from MS-sql server is likely LESS work then trying to pull data from a mdb
file sitting on that web server (and, to copy the mdb file, you will have to
shut down the web server which has the mdb file open. Further, shutting down
the web server can often be quite hard to do when you are using a web
hosting company...as you got to shut down THEIR web server so the mdb file
is closed, and then you can copy it. However, in all of these cases, and
EVEN when you are using a mdb file on the web server you are NOT using
ms-access in any way, shape, or form. If you use a server based engine like
ms-sql server, then you can connect to that database over the internet and
pull data from it into your mdb file...but you can't do that if you choose
mdb file to host the data on the server.

So, at the end of the day, your data on the server does not have to be in
ms-access, and in fact it is LESS of a advantage to place your data in a mdb
file for the web server to open and consume. And, since you are NOT using
any special features of ms-access/mdb files anyway, then do you really care
where, or what system is used on the web server to host the data?

To be fair, ms-access does have some web based ability, but they requite
TIGHT integration with the web server, and in fact is only practical if you
are running your own web server (along with the VERY scary security risks of
doing this!!). ms-access has what is called DAP's (data access pages). These
DAP's are in fact live connections to a mdb file. And, you can even create
forms in ms-access and save them as a web form (all the fears like sub-forms
etc DO NOT work). And, you still requite end users to have office installed.
So, DAP's are not at all practical for a public web site, and further you
would be MUCH better to use something like front page...and learn some
scripting (vb.script) to make ASP pages.

So, your best approach here is to build the web stuff in ASP, or even better
ASP.NET (and, you don't need ms-access to do this, nor will ms-access help
you anyway. Further, placing the data in a mdb file on a web server is
actually HINDRANCE for you to be able to use the data).

So, you will have to check with your web provider as to what kinds of
software tools and development tools THEIR web server supports. For example,
it might be that your provider is using non Microsoft based web servers, and
thus your choice of tools is limited.

Hence, you either have to find out what tools and development systems your
web provider supports, or choose the tools you want to crate your web stuff
with, and then find a provider that supports your favorite tools you are
(will) use to develop your web site. However, those tools have really noting
to do with ms-access at all. ms-access is not a web based system..and is the
wrong tool, and in fact will NOT help you at all here.

Time to start visiting some other (non ms-access) newsgroups here!!

--
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pl*****************@msn.com
http://www.members.shaw.ca/AlbertKallal

[billmiami2]

John,

I don't see any way around creating a web application for this. Also,
as Albert says, there's no particular reason why you must use MS Access
(Jet) as the database, especially if the "back end Invoice and Payroll
Access application" does not yet exist. If your 3rd party host will
provide you with database tools such as MySQL or MS SQL Server (as mine
does) then you would be much better off using those with your new web
application.

In addition, you should think about security as this would be
senstitive information sitting on someone else's server going across
the web with HTTP. You might want to use SSL (very simple to do) and
some kind of authentication so that not just anyone can log in. You
may want to discuss security with your 3rd party provider. You also
may want to consider hosting this on your own server--talk to your
network admins about options.

If you have no experience with web applications then it may be a good
idea to hire someone to handle this. Of course, this could also serve
as a good crash course in web development for you if you're willing to
take on something completely new and have enought time to devote to it.

Bill

[squash]

John Baker wrote:

Hi:

I am URGENTLY in need of some book or web site OR tool that will help me integrate a relatively simple access application into a web page or pages. This is a time recording system (by project), and I would be more than wiling to pull the updated database down from the Host using FTP on a monthly basis. Its just that I need to understand how to set it up on the web site itself. The Host supports SQL.

Any direction you can give would be much appreciated. I know Access 97 had a wizard that permitted the creation of web pages, and wonder if that wizard is available as an add on to other versions of Access.

Thank You

John Baker

This software should help you:

http://web.peoriadesignweb.com/database

[Bob Alston]

sq****@peoriadesignweb.com wrote:

John Baker wrote:

Hi:

I am URGENTLY in need of some book or web site OR tool that will help

me integrate a

relatively simple access application into a web page or pages. This

is a time recording

system (by project), and I would be more than wiling to pull the

updated database down

from the Host using FTP on a monthly basis. Its just that I need to

understand how to set

it up on the web site itself. The Host supports SQL.

Any direction you can give would be much appreciated. I know Access

97 had a wizard that

permitted the creation of web pages, and wonder if that wizard is

available as an add on

to other versions of Access.

Thank You

John Baker

This software should help you:

http://web.peoriadesignweb.com/database

You first need to figure out where you can host the application and if
they support ASP pages and/or ASP.NET pages? That is key as to which
software you can use. If your web site does not support either of the
above, then I can't advise you very much.

I never had any luck with the built in ASP generation within Access.

If it does support ASP only, and you have a relatively straightforward
set of pages to construct, then I suggest you use FrontPage. You can
import an access database to Frontpage. Its wizard will generate
add/change/delete pages for you. Not as integrated as Access (separate
pages for view, edit and delete - but it works).

Note you have to ensure that the directory you put your database into
using front page, when copied to the host web site, will get the
necessary permissions for updating the database. If not, you will get
an error "requires an updatable query" when doing changes, additions or
deletions; reading will work fine".

If you have a web host that will support Microsoft's new ASP.NET, then
you have more options.

One I like is called Raptier. It uses "grids" kind of like an access
database list display, to show the data. Not customized forms, but it
works well. Raptier lite is free.
http://www.sharppower.com/Default.as...=products/home

Another software I really like is Microtools Access Wiz - Access to .Net
converter. Cost is $135 but there is a free trial using the Microsoft
Northwind database.
http://www.microtools.us/

Easy and straightforward to run. Generates code quickly.

After conversion it opens the generated web site automatically (and
leaves the conversion program open).

You must have the free Microsoft .Net framework 1.1 installed to run the
software.

Very good, responsive support via email!!!

Hope this helps.

Bob

[Bob Alston]

Bob Alston wrote:

sq****@peoriadesignweb.com wrote:

John Baker wrote:

Hi:

I am URGENTLY in need of some book or web site OR tool that will help

me integrate a

relatively simple access application into a web page or pages. This

is a time recording

system (by project), and I would be more than wiling to pull the

updated database down

from the Host using FTP on a monthly basis. Its just that I need to

understand how to set

it up on the web site itself. The Host supports SQL.

Any direction you can give would be much appreciated. I know Access

97 had a wizard that

permitted the creation of web pages, and wonder if that wizard is

available as an add on

to other versions of Access.

Thank You

John Baker

This software should help you:

http://web.peoriadesignweb.com/database

You first need to figure out where you can host the application and if
they support ASP pages and/or ASP.NET pages? That is key as to which
software you can use. If your web site does not support either of the
above, then I can't advise you very much.

I never had any luck with the built in ASP generation within Access.

If it does support ASP only, and you have a relatively straightforward
set of pages to construct, then I suggest you use FrontPage. You can
import an access database to Frontpage. Its wizard will generate
add/change/delete pages for you. Not as integrated as Access (separate
pages for view, edit and delete - but it works).

Note you have to ensure that the directory you put your database into
using front page, when copied to the host web site, will get the
necessary permissions for updating the database. If not, you will get
an error "requires an updatable query" when doing changes, additions or
deletions; reading will work fine".

If you have a web host that will support Microsoft's new ASP.NET, then
you have more options.

One I like is called Raptier. It uses "grids" kind of like an access
database list display, to show the data. Not customized forms, but it
works well. Raptier lite is free.
http://www.sharppower.com/Default.as...=products/home

Another software I really like is Microtools Access Wiz - Access to .Net
converter. Cost is $135 but there is a free trial using the Microsoft
Northwind database.
http://www.microtools.us/

Easy and straightforward to run. Generates code quickly.

After conversion it opens the generated web site automatically (and
leaves the conversion program open).

You must have the free Microsoft .Net framework 1.1 installed to run the
software.

Very good, responsive support via email!!!

Hope this helps.

Bob

Did some more recent looking at DAP pages. I now remember what turned
me off to them. that was the ability to do subforms with DAP. I use
sub forms extensively in my Access apps.

But that aside, for a simple form, the DAP generated code works.

And now, after all my research into all the other software, I have
learned a lot about how a web page accesses an Access database. On a
live server, you have to 1) know the real path to the Access database
and put that on the page; or code mappath commands correctly to
dynamically identify the location of the Access database. 'Cause the
web page opens the Access database using file access routines. That can
get a bit complicated but stay in there.

If you can use rather simple forms on your web site, you can generate
DAP pages and you certainly can FTP the database periodically to
retrieve the data that has been entered.

You can of course modify the DAP page via your own code. I think it
used HTM: and javascript.

Bob