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MS Access 97/2K personal contact management & knowledge base app

P: n/a
Would anyone be willing to beta test my application for me and give me some
feedback? I can give you feedback in exchange (ie. if there are parts
you're interested in knowing how it was done) or I can give you a free
license if you want to use it.

It should install OK but that is part of the problem that needs to be
verified on all platforms so that people can just download it in the future,
install and use it.

It has an mde front end and mdb backend. Highly automated. Its useful in
managing personal contacts, projects, diary, and personal files. Its
advantages are: speed of data input, retrieval and update. I also created a
step by step manual - 10 pages.
The application and manual can be downloaded from my website. Please send
me an email to wo*****@hotmail.com if you'd like more information. Thanks.
--
Regards,
Peter
Nov 13 '05 #1
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20 Replies


P: n/a
Wolftor,
It's called Microsoft Outlook and comes with Microsoft Office. Nice try. I
hope it's a very nice wheel you re-invented.

"wolftor" <wo*****@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:VI********************@rogers.com...
Would anyone be willing to beta test my application for me and give me
some
feedback?

Nov 13 '05 #2

P: n/a
I believe that Access is considerably more powerful than Outlook -
particularly for managing notes that are related to a contact. I don't
think Outlook is a relational database, is it?
"Alan Webb" <kn*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0P********************@comcast.com...
Wolftor,
It's called Microsoft Outlook and comes with Microsoft Office. Nice try. I
hope it's a very nice wheel you re-invented.

"wolftor" <wo*****@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:VI********************@rogers.com...
Would anyone be willing to beta test my application for me and give me
some
feedback?


Nov 13 '05 #3

P: n/a
I agree with Alan. Access and Outlook can be programmed to work
hand-in-hand with each other.

Additionally, Wolftor, if this is a legitimate beta-test database that you
have available from your website, you could simply post the link here.
Instead, you post your Email address as the means of obtaining more
information in regard to testing this product for you, which in itself,
provides nothing more than a means by which other people's Email Address may
be collected for spamming purposes. Nice try.

"Alan Webb" <kn*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0P********************@comcast.com...
Wolftor,
It's called Microsoft Outlook and comes with Microsoft Office. Nice try. I hope it's a very nice wheel you re-invented.

"wolftor" <wo*****@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:VI********************@rogers.com...
Would anyone be willing to beta test my application for me and give me
some
feedback?


Nov 13 '05 #4

P: n/a
I didn't want to include the URL because THEN I thought I might be accused
of spam.
But since you asked, the link is: www.AAAdataSystems.com and my email
address is wo*****@hotmail.com. The application is called Personal
Organizer. I am just asking for feedback. I promise never to spam anyone
or release their email address to others.

If access and outlook can be programmed to work with each other, I would
like to know more about that if anyone has any info to share, so that I can
add useful functionality to my app.

Peter

"ByteMyzer" <sb*@nospam.news.chi.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3F*******************@newssvr19.news.prodigy. com...
I agree with Alan. Access and Outlook can be programmed to work
hand-in-hand with each other.

Additionally, Wolftor, if this is a legitimate beta-test database that you
have available from your website, you could simply post the link here.
Instead, you post your Email address as the means of obtaining more
information in regard to testing this product for you, which in itself,
provides nothing more than a means by which other people's Email Address may
be collected for spamming purposes. Nice try.

"Alan Webb" <kn*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0P********************@comcast.com...
Wolftor,
It's called Microsoft Outlook and comes with Microsoft Office. Nice try. I hope it's a very nice wheel you re-invented.

"wolftor" <wo*****@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:VI********************@rogers.com...
Would anyone be willing to beta test my application for me and give me
some
feedback?



Nov 13 '05 #5

P: n/a
You seem to have been treated a little too harshly here, and perhaps rashly.
I looked at the product on your website, and for all those who don't want to
go to the effort of looking, the product is legit.

BUT, I completely agree with the comments about it duplicating what Outlook
already does, and already does well, not to mention several other lesser
products over the years. This is not to say that your effor is wasted, just
that you need to consider that Access is a general-purpose database tool;
what you have done is created a general-purpose PIM. In other words, you
took a very flexible tool, and made it single-purpose, with no benefits
added. This isn't going to be used by any knowledgable person. If you want
to sell your product, customize it for a more specific audience, that does
not already have an industry-standard and competent tool. This means that
you need to do some research first. Find out what the market already has to
offer. Find out if there is a market for your product first.

Bottom line - if your product is going to be useful, ** it must add value
**. Bluntly, as it is now, your product adds little to no value to what
Access offers out of the box - and actually takes away from it - and does
far less than what Outlook already does.
Darryl Kerkeslager
Nov 13 '05 #6

P: n/a
Wolftor,
Not really. Outlook has a field attached to many things that allows you to
list the contacts associated with it. There is a pretty good search tool
included as well. Tucked away on many Outlook objects is a custom field
feature which lets you add any fields to an object that you need. Outlook
also has spawned its own cottage industry of custom software based on it.
Access may be the more powerful relational database. Access is only as
powerful as the programmer using it to build things. In the hands if an
idiot programmer Access is just an expensive waste of disk space.
You have already made the choice to build something and try to compete with
Microsoft so trying to explain to you that buying an off-the-shelf software
is almost always cheaper than building something new is a pointless
exercise. Since you have invested so much so far I wish you luck. I would
have gone to my local computer retailer and plunked down some money for
Symantec's ACT! before deciding to build my own CRM software.

"wolftor" <wo*****@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:Is********************@rogers.com...
I believe that Access is considerably more powerful than Outlook -
particularly for managing notes that are related to a contact. I don't
think Outlook is a relational database, is it?
"Alan Webb" <kn*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0P********************@comcast.com...
Wolftor,
It's called Microsoft Outlook and comes with Microsoft Office. Nice try.
I
hope it's a very nice wheel you re-invented.

"wolftor" <wo*****@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:VI********************@rogers.com...
Would anyone be willing to beta test my application for me and give me
some
feedback?


Nov 13 '05 #7

P: n/a
Thankyou very much, Darryl, for your feedback and advice. Although I know
my app offers significant value compared to Access out of the box and
definitely takes nothing away from it. If someone has Access, they still
have all the same functionality of Access out of the box, plus significant
added speed for data input; added speed for finding contacts, notes, and
appointments; and added speed for modifying those notes. In effect, it
does 90% of what people need to do when managing their contacts, notes and
schedule. The populated mdb backend file can then also be used for any
custom queries, forms & reports, etc.

I haven't used Outlook for a couple of years and I guess I would need to
start using it so that I can do a proper comparision. Your suggestion about
customizing it sounds good but will it be worth the effort? My hope at this
point is to package a CD that could be sold off the shelf in a computer
store or bundled with a new PC - I think it s 90% of the way there but needs
some fine tuning. I created this app starting about 4 years ago (I'm not a
programmer, more of a marketing/sales guy, that used Act & Maximizer
before). I wanted something more powerful and flexible, particularly when
it came to managing the NOTES, which is what changes most frequently. I
also wanted a simpler UI for seeing required info at a glance and modifying
it.

If there is someone out there who knows Outlook well and who wants to try my
app, that would be most helpful because you would be able to quickly see the
pros & cons.

Also, as far as I know, I have stretched Access's capabilities to the
limit - but I am probably wrong. If there is functionality within Access
that I am not taking advantage of, it would be most helpful if that were
pointed out to me.


"Darryl Kerkeslager" <Ke*********@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:55********************@comcast.com...
You seem to have been treated a little too harshly here, and perhaps rashly.
I looked at the product on your website, and for all those who don't want to
go to the effort of looking, the product is legit.

BUT, I completely agree with the comments about it duplicating what Outlook
already does, and already does well, not to mention several other lesser
products over the years. This is not to say that your effor is wasted, just
that you need to consider that Access is a general-purpose database tool;
what you have done is created a general-purpose PIM. In other words, you
took a very flexible tool, and made it single-purpose, with no benefits
added. This isn't going to be used by any knowledgable person. If you want
to sell your product, customize it for a more specific audience, that does
not already have an industry-standard and competent tool. This means that
you need to do some research first. Find out what the market already has to
offer. Find out if there is a market for your product first.

Bottom line - if your product is going to be useful, ** it must add value
**. Bluntly, as it is now, your product adds little to no value to what
Access offers out of the box - and actually takes away from it - and does
far less than what Outlook already does.
Darryl Kerkeslager

Nov 13 '05 #8

P: n/a
Alan, I used ACT for many years before creating my own app - in fact, it was
the limitations of ACT the prompted me to develop it for my own use; since,
I was in sales and needed something more powerful and flexible when it came
to managing the notes, quickly finding a contact by other fields such as
email address, etc. Originally I also added a sales pipeline form, but have
since taken this out for the sake of simplicity. I don't know about how ACT
is today, but you used to have to doubleclick on a note to see the details
and and before you could modify it; and you couldn't see all your notes
related to a contact at a glance. My app fixed this problem. I've worked
on this part time for 3 years (I first had to learn Access. I am not a
programmer) and sometimes with the help of a couple of programmers to add
certain functionality.

I hope this effort was not wasted. At a minimum, its great for my own use:
I use it every day - more than any other app, since its where I store my
schedule, notes, and personal knowledge base. Right now, I want to see if
anything useful can be done with it - ideally, to fine tune it, package it,
and sell it as a CD in computer stores (or to be bundled with new PC clones
and laptops). Am I dreaming or is this a possibility with the proper
modifications?
"Alan Webb" <kn*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2s********************@comcast.com...
Wolftor,
Not really. Outlook has a field attached to many things that allows you to
list the contacts associated with it. There is a pretty good search tool
included as well. Tucked away on many Outlook objects is a custom field
feature which lets you add any fields to an object that you need. Outlook
also has spawned its own cottage industry of custom software based on it.
Access may be the more powerful relational database. Access is only as
powerful as the programmer using it to build things. In the hands if an
idiot programmer Access is just an expensive waste of disk space.
You have already made the choice to build something and try to compete with
Microsoft so trying to explain to you that buying an off-the-shelf software
is almost always cheaper than building something new is a pointless
exercise. Since you have invested so much so far I wish you luck. I would
have gone to my local computer retailer and plunked down some money for
Symantec's ACT! before deciding to build my own CRM software.

"wolftor" <wo*****@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:Is********************@rogers.com...
I believe that Access is considerably more powerful than Outlook -
particularly for managing notes that are related to a contact. I don't
think Outlook is a relational database, is it?
"Alan Webb" <kn*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0P********************@comcast.com...
Wolftor,
It's called Microsoft Outlook and comes with Microsoft Office. Nice try.
I
hope it's a very nice wheel you re-invented.

"wolftor" <wo*****@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:VI********************@rogers.com...
Would anyone be willing to beta test my application for me and give me
some
feedback?



Nov 13 '05 #9

P: n/a
Wolftor,
Bluntly, you are dreaming. There is a ton of work to do before you can use
the cd-burner in your compter to start making copies and selling them.
First, as a customer I'd be pissed if I had to install Access (even runtime)
to use your product. That alone would send me back to the store to exchange
it for something else more fun like GTAIII or Madden Football. Second, in
all your posts you have not mentioned any market studies or other effort to
identify your target customer and his or her needs. You are not your target
customer. You already own it so there is no money to be made selling it to
you. So, who is your customer? What do they want that is worth buying
yours? I don't care that you spent three years coding this thing.
Microsoft has been building versions of Outlook for close to ten years, has
way more people on the engineering team than you, and honestly, is pretty
good at writing software I like. You really have your work cut out for you
if you expect us in the marketplace to pay money for something that doesn't
have all the features of Outlook and requires that I install some software
from Microsoft to run.

I hope this effort was not wasted. At a minimum, its great for my own
use:
I use it every day - more than any other app, since its where I store my
schedule, notes, and personal knowledge base. Right now, I want to see if
anything useful can be done with it - ideally, to fine tune it, package
it,
and sell it as a CD in computer stores (or to be bundled with new PC
clones
and laptops). Am I dreaming or is this a possibility with the proper
modifications?

Nov 13 '05 #10

P: n/a
Wolftor,
I wrote everything so far without looking at your stuff. I just looked at
it. You suck. The interface is overly busy. It uses themes and so on that
belong to Microsoft. The colors are ugly and make your screens hard to
read. The switchboard forces me to navigate to something before I see any
useful data. I've seen enough. I won't even beta-test it. Please, please,
go do a market study, evaluate your competition's products, and identify
your target customer. That mess I saw on the web site is a piece of crap.

"wolftor" <wo*****@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:VI********************@rogers.com...
Would anyone be willing to beta test my application for me and give me
some
feedback?

Nov 13 '05 #11

P: n/a
Rather bluntly put but I have to say I agree with the sentiment. It made
me chuckle to see that 'map of the globe' backdrop again. I once used
that but soon realised that users would much prefer to see a battleship
grey background anytime and that using those images bloats the GUI size.

Keith.

Alan Webb wrote:
Wolftor,
I wrote everything so far without looking at your stuff. I just looked at
it. You suck. The interface is overly busy. It uses themes and so on that
belong to Microsoft. The colors are ugly and make your screens hard to
read. The switchboard forces me to navigate to something before I see any
useful data. I've seen enough.

Nov 13 '05 #12

P: n/a
Alan, I believe the runtime can be packaged with the app on the CD and will
only install if Access is not present. If runtime is being installed
automatically followed by the app installation, why would that be so bad?

Target market would be new PC buyers, since I don't believe a contact mgt
app comes with the PC. Outlook is expensive to buy separately, isn't it?
And the database it creates is not as flexible to manipulate, search, query
as an Access mdb, no? For someone who doesn't have Outlook, ACT or another
contact manager, isn't there a niche - especially if they already know
something about Access and like Access?

OK, I need to learn more about Outlook or someone who know Outlook needs to
try my app before I make more comments. I don't know enough about Outlook
so say why my app is better or worse right now.
"Alan Webb" <kn*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1a********************@comcast.com...
Wolftor,
Bluntly, you are dreaming. There is a ton of work to do before you can use
the cd-burner in your compter to start making copies and selling them.
First, as a customer I'd be pissed if I had to install Access (even runtime)
to use your product. That alone would send me back to the store to exchange
it for something else more fun like GTAIII or Madden Football. Second, in
all your posts you have not mentioned any market studies or other effort to
identify your target customer and his or her needs. You are not your target
customer. You already own it so there is no money to be made selling it to
you. So, who is your customer? What do they want that is worth buying
yours? I don't care that you spent three years coding this thing.
Microsoft has been building versions of Outlook for close to ten years, has
way more people on the engineering team than you, and honestly, is pretty
good at writing software I like. You really have your work cut out for you
if you expect us in the marketplace to pay money for something that doesn't
have all the features of Outlook and requires that I install some software
from Microsoft to run.

I hope this effort was not wasted. At a minimum, its great for my own
use:
I use it every day - more than any other app, since its where I store my
schedule, notes, and personal knowledge base. Right now, I want to see if
anything useful can be done with it - ideally, to fine tune it, package
it,
and sell it as a CD in computer stores (or to be bundled with new PC
clones
and laptops). Am I dreaming or is this a possibility with the proper
modifications?


Nov 13 '05 #13

P: n/a
WOW. Very blunt but I appreciate all feedback.

Colours are easy to change. I can simplify the UI but don't know what you
suggest I take out. I've been using it for 3 years and find all the fields
and buttons useful.

Do you suggest it open in the contacts form? A user can just press C from
the main menu to get there, but they may want to open in their
appointments - in which case just press enter since its the default button
or press A. I could maybe add a preferences form that allows users to open
in a particular form.

What do you mean it uses themes that belong to MS? I agree to evaluate
Outlook and ACT to do a comparision for functionality and UI.
"Alan Webb" <kn*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pe********************@comcast.com...
Wolftor,
I wrote everything so far without looking at your stuff. I just looked at
it. You suck. The interface is overly busy. It uses themes and so on that
belong to Microsoft. The colors are ugly and make your screens hard to
read. The switchboard forces me to navigate to something before I see any
useful data. I've seen enough. I won't even beta-test it. Please, please,
go do a market study, evaluate your competition's products, and identify
your target customer. That mess I saw on the web site is a piece of crap.

"wolftor" <wo*****@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:VI********************@rogers.com...
Would anyone be willing to beta test my application for me and give me
some
feedback?


Nov 13 '05 #14

P: n/a
I thought Alan was being overly harsh, but I guess not. He really has tried
to get through to you - THERE IS NOT A MARKET FOR WHAT YOU HAVE CREATED.
Period. Don't argue with him, or try to convince him .. you've been given
excellent advice; just take it.

You can't rip the seats out of a Ford Ranger and replace them with air
mattresses and sell it for twice the price. This is what you have done.
Use your experience as an educational, not a commercial one. "Isn't there a
niche?" No. Not for Ford Rangers with air mattresses sold as Fjord Custom
Deluxes, and not for your product.
Darryl Kerkeslager

"wolftor" <wo*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3I********************@rogers.com...
Alan, I believe the runtime can be packaged with the app on the CD and will only install if Access is not present. If runtime is being installed
automatically followed by the app installation, why would that be so bad?

Target market would be new PC buyers, since I don't believe a contact mgt
app comes with the PC. Outlook is expensive to buy separately, isn't it?
And the database it creates is not as flexible to manipulate, search, query as an Access mdb, no? For someone who doesn't have Outlook, ACT or another contact manager, isn't there a niche - especially if they already know
something about Access and like Access?

OK, I need to learn more about Outlook or someone who know Outlook needs to try my app before I make more comments. I don't know enough about Outlook
so say why my app is better or worse right now.
"Alan Webb" <kn*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1a********************@comcast.com...
Wolftor,
Bluntly, you are dreaming. There is a ton of work to do before you can use the cd-burner in your compter to start making copies and selling them.
First, as a customer I'd be pissed if I had to install Access (even runtime) to use your product. That alone would send me back to the store to exchange it for something else more fun like GTAIII or Madden Football. Second, in
all your posts you have not mentioned any market studies or other effort to identify your target customer and his or her needs. You are not your target customer. You already own it so there is no money to be made selling it to you. So, who is your customer? What do they want that is worth buying
yours? I don't care that you spent three years coding this thing.
Microsoft has been building versions of Outlook for close to ten years, has way more people on the engineering team than you, and honestly, is pretty
good at writing software I like. You really have your work cut out for you if you expect us in the marketplace to pay money for something that doesn't have all the features of Outlook and requires that I install some software
from Microsoft to run.

I hope this effort was not wasted. At a minimum, its great for my own
use:
I use it every day - more than any other app, since its where I store my
schedule, notes, and personal knowledge base. Right now, I want to see if anything useful can be done with it - ideally, to fine tune it, package
it,
and sell it as a CD in computer stores (or to be bundled with new PC
clones
and laptops). Am I dreaming or is this a possibility with the proper
modifications?


Nov 13 '05 #15

P: n/a
Wolftor,
Which new PC buyers? The purchasing agent for a corporation evaluating
proposals for new standard desktop computers across the enterprise? Home PC
Users? If home PC Users, whom? What operating system will you market to?
Are you only going to sell to Windows users? What about selling to Linux or
Mac OSX users?
And . . . Why would Dell or Gateway or HP include your product in the OEM
package of CD's that come with the computer? What is in it for them? If
they do include it, will it cause an instability or incompatibility with the
other products that ship with a new machine? Is your product going to sell
computers for them? Will people buy a PC because your product is so great
they have to have it and will buy a computer so they can use it?
Dude, do your homework before you pop up a site and say you are ready to
take on Microsoft.

"wolftor" <wo*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3I********************@rogers.com...
Target market would be new PC buyers, since I don't believe a contact mgt
app comes with the PC.

Nov 13 '05 #16

P: n/a
I really don't understand Darryl's mattress analogy. I haven't ripped the
seats out of anything. Access is still what it is. I've added automation
to common processes to speed them up. So far I have not seen a faster way
of updating notes and a person's calendar (which is what most people do on a
daily basis) than my app. If Outlook is faster, then fine and I'll start
using Outlook myself instead and forget about selling this app to anyone
else. Time is money, so if my app saves time, there should be a niche. If
their preference is to have their data in Access instead of Outlook for
flexibility, I'm hoping there's a niche.

PC buyers I'm talking about would be more the ones buying a clone from a
local PC shop. It would be an add-on sale for the dealer rather than a
giveaway. If the dealer can sell it for $100 and they make 50% or even 70%,
that's an extra $50-70 for them. Its not meant for enterprise. As far as I
know, Access is not good for networks greater than about 10 people.
Individuals who want to have a personal knowledge base (ie. to keep contacts
and notes separate from company data) may be prospects too. I'm not the
most technical guy: I believe it will only run on windows as is, so that's
the target market: Windows PC standalone users (particularly laptop or
notebook).

You raise some good questions about compatibility with other systems. I
don't know the answer. I was hoping some beta testers could point this out
that there would be a work around if it is a problem. I don't know if the
app would help sell computers. For someone who has lots of contacts
especially by phone and is constantly typing associated notes, its a great
tool.

I don't want to take on Microsoft - on the contrary, I'm hoping (with the
right tweeking), this app can demonstrate the power of Microsoft Access.
Many people have Access on their PCs and never use it at all. I'm hoping
this could give them a good reason to use Access. Isn't Access a more
powerful database than Outlook? If someone wants to do custom queries,
forms and report later, can they do it with Outlook? I don't know enough
about Outlook yet to compare.

Guys, your feedback is honestly much appreciated but I really would like to
get down to much finer levels of detail if possible: what features need to
be added, modified or deleted to make the product more marketable. ie. Do I
need to add alarms to the calendar? What preferences should a user have
control over? What is difficult to use or understand when going through the
manual or even trying it adlib without a manual.

I'm hoping that the Access experts in this forum can help me. I'm not ready
to port the app to linux, oracle, or sql server; rather, I just want to take
this app as far as it possibly can go WITHIN THE LIMITS OF ACCESS (over
which I have no control). Even if there's no market (to be determined
separately), can we make it a technical challenge?

Someone said there could be a niche if it were customized to some specific
underserved markets. Sounds good, but I think the generic version needs to
be perfected first, then this would be mainly an issue of adding more
fields, forms and reports.

"Alan Webb" <kn*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YI********************@comcast.com...
Wolftor,
Which new PC buyers? The purchasing agent for a corporation evaluating
proposals for new standard desktop computers across the enterprise? Home PC
Users? If home PC Users, whom? What operating system will you market to?
Are you only going to sell to Windows users? What about selling to Linux or
Mac OSX users?
And . . . Why would Dell or Gateway or HP include your product in the OEM
package of CD's that come with the computer? What is in it for them? If
they do include it, will it cause an instability or incompatibility with the
other products that ship with a new machine? Is your product going to sell
computers for them? Will people buy a PC because your product is so great
they have to have it and will buy a computer so they can use it?
Dude, do your homework before you pop up a site and say you are ready to
take on Microsoft.

"wolftor" <wo*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3I********************@rogers.com...
Target market would be new PC buyers, since I don't believe a contact mgt
app comes with the PC.


Nov 13 '05 #17

P: n/a
> I really don't understand Darryl's mattress analogy. I haven't ripped the
seats out of anything.
Not if you're only selling the runtime version. If you're not, then you're
selling to people who have Access already. You are, and will remain,
unconvinced.

<Sigh>

You have a website. Spend some of your money getting ads on Google or other
sites. When you've sold 5 of your product at $68 each, come back and ask
again.
Darryl Kerkeslager
"wolftor" <wo*****@hotmail.com> wrote: I really don't understand Darryl's mattress analogy. I haven't ripped the
seats out of anything. Access is still what it is. I've added automation
to common processes to speed them up. So far I have not seen a faster way
of updating notes and a person's calendar (which is what most people do on a daily basis) than my app. If Outlook is faster, then fine and I'll start
using Outlook myself instead and forget about selling this app to anyone
else. Time is money, so if my app saves time, there should be a niche. If their preference is to have their data in Access instead of Outlook for
flexibility, I'm hoping there's a niche. [snip] Even if there's no market (to be determined
separately), can we make it a technical challenge?

Someone said there could be a niche if it were customized to some specific
underserved markets. Sounds good, but I think the generic version needs to be perfected first, then this would be mainly an issue of adding more
fields, forms and reports.

Nov 13 '05 #18

P: n/a
Darryl, I would want to sell to people who have Access and who don't have
Access (then it comes with runtime). Before I try to sell it, I really wish
I could still get some beta test feedback on functionality, ease of use,
etc, so that I can fix those things first. Ideally would also like some
testimonials from people who really like it - good for marketing purposes.

I know I still have some problems with the installation: it doesn't install
equally well on all windows pcs. Don't want to sell it until that is fixed
at a minimum.

"Darryl Kerkeslager" <Ke*********@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mq********************@comcast.com...
I really don't understand Darryl's mattress analogy. I haven't ripped the
seats out of anything.
Not if you're only selling the runtime version. If you're not, then you're
selling to people who have Access already. You are, and will remain,
unconvinced.

<Sigh>

You have a website. Spend some of your money getting ads on Google or other
sites. When you've sold 5 of your product at $68 each, come back and ask
again.
Darryl Kerkeslager
"wolftor" <wo*****@hotmail.com> wrote: I really don't understand Darryl's mattress analogy. I haven't ripped the
seats out of anything. Access is still what it is. I've added automation
to common processes to speed them up. So far I have not seen a faster way
of updating notes and a person's calendar (which is what most people do on a daily basis) than my app. If Outlook is faster, then fine and I'll start
using Outlook myself instead and forget about selling this app to anyone
else. Time is money, so if my app saves time, there should be a niche. If their preference is to have their data in Access instead of Outlook for
flexibility, I'm hoping there's a niche. [snip] Even if there's no market (to be determined
separately), can we make it a technical challenge?

Someone said there could be a niche if it were customized to some specific
underserved markets. Sounds good, but I think the generic version needs to be perfected first, then this would be mainly an issue of adding more
fields, forms and reports.


Nov 13 '05 #19

P: n/a
Wolftor,
I missed the mattress bit. I've been harping on you to go use your
competition's software before you try to compete with them. $68.00? Why?
If you are going to compete in the retail market place you really must
invest the time to code a product in C# or other language that gives you a
license to create your own executibles. It is inexcusable for a
shrinkwrapped product to require installation of third party products in
order to make it run correctly. There is plenty out there in the academic
community on coding relational database engines in C++ that would give you a
start. Depending on your language vendor, there may even be libraries with
a database engine already done that you can use as part of your product.
Wolftor, you leaped into the marketplace before you are ready. Either you
are going to have a rough first five years while your customers beat the
snot out of you for releasing a crappy product and perhaps your business
fails or you are going to invest the time and money it takes to create a
genuinely better PIM.
There are problems with Outlook. There are places where another PIM could
compete. I already have in mind a few features I could market that would
make a splash in the trade magazines and get the publicity needed to create
interest and sales. But you need to find those for yourself. If you want
my ideas you'll have to pay for them.

"wolftor" <wo*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Pb********************@rogers.com...
Darryl, I would want to sell to people who have Access and who don't have
Access (then it comes with runtime). Before I try to sell it, I really
wish
I could still get some beta test feedback on functionality, ease of use,
etc, so that I can fix those things first. Ideally would also like some
testimonials from people who really like it - good for marketing purposes.

I know I still have some problems with the installation: it doesn't
install
equally well on all windows pcs. Don't want to sell it until that is
fixed
at a minimum.

"Darryl Kerkeslager" <Ke*********@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mq********************@comcast.com...
I really don't understand Darryl's mattress analogy. I haven't ripped
the
seats out of anything.


Not if you're only selling the runtime version. If you're not, then
you're
selling to people who have Access already. You are, and will remain,
unconvinced.

<Sigh>

You have a website. Spend some of your money getting ads on Google or
other
sites. When you've sold 5 of your product at $68 each, come back and ask
again.
Darryl Kerkeslager
"wolftor" <wo*****@hotmail.com> wrote:
I really don't understand Darryl's mattress analogy. I haven't ripped
the
seats out of anything. Access is still what it is. I've added
automation
to common processes to speed them up. So far I have not seen a faster
way
of updating notes and a person's calendar (which is what most people do
on

a
daily basis) than my app. If Outlook is faster, then fine and I'll start
using Outlook myself instead and forget about selling this app to anyone
else. Time is money, so if my app saves time, there should be a niche.

If
their preference is to have their data in Access instead of Outlook for
flexibility, I'm hoping there's a niche.

[snip]
Even if there's no market (to be determined
separately), can we make it a technical challenge?

Someone said there could be a niche if it were customized to some
specific
underserved markets. Sounds good, but I think the generic version needs

to
be perfected first, then this would be mainly an issue of adding more
fields, forms and reports.


Nov 13 '05 #20

P: n/a
Thanks for the advice Alan. I'm surprised there aren't bigger fans of
Access on this forum. I thought people would welcome the challenge of
pushing Access to its limits and seeing what it can really do. I agree that
C++ would be better ultimately but it would also be a huge amount of work to
reproduce what I've already done. Access comes with some great
functionality built in (ie. right click on a field to filter by that field)
and that would be a ton of extra work in another language, unless there are
libraries to address these kind of things. Even if I were to take the time
and money to create a better PIM (and leverage the work already done), what
additional functionality is needed? That's why I was hoping some people
would try it and give me some feedback. I don't want to release a crappy
product and I still don't think its crappy now - just needs some fine
tuning. If runtime comes on a CD for a seamless installation, is it really
such a big deal? Installation is a one time process, it might just take a
minute longer, but that's because runtime Access is a powerful program.
Also, what about if I just target people who already have Access for now -
so they can get up and running faster for data input, search & modification?
Peter

"Alan Webb" <kn*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8f********************@comcast.com...
Wolftor,
I missed the mattress bit. I've been harping on you to go use your
competition's software before you try to compete with them. $68.00? Why?
If you are going to compete in the retail market place you really must
invest the time to code a product in C# or other language that gives you a
license to create your own executibles. It is inexcusable for a
shrinkwrapped product to require installation of third party products in
order to make it run correctly. There is plenty out there in the academic
community on coding relational database engines in C++ that would give you a
start. Depending on your language vendor, there may even be libraries with

a database engine already done that you can use as part of your product.
Wolftor, you leaped into the marketplace before you are ready. Either you
are going to have a rough first five years while your customers beat the
snot out of you for releasing a crappy product and perhaps your business
fails or you are going to invest the time and money it takes to create a
genuinely better PIM.
There are problems with Outlook. There are places where another PIM could
compete. I already have in mind a few features I could market that would
make a splash in the trade magazines and get the publicity needed to create
interest and sales. But you need to find those for yourself. If you want
my ideas you'll have to pay for them.
Nov 13 '05 #21

This discussion thread is closed

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