To Access MVPs regarding Access 2003 Help

[Bruce Dodds]

I recently started using Access 2003 for the first time. I wanted to
pass on some comments about the Help system to Access MVPs who frequent
this board. I'm doing this in the hope that some of what I say may be
passed on to Microsoft.

Microsoft has implemented a combination local and web based help system
in Access 2003. The local Help installed on your hard drive is fast, but
the content is abbreviated. For really useful help you have to use
Microsoft Office online.

The problem with this is that it's way too slow. This is not just a
quibble. About thirty years ago IBM did a renowned White Paper on the
effect of response time on productivity. It found that a change from one
second to subsecond response time improved productivity. Having to wait
30 seconds for help to be displayed has an effect that goes beyond just
the 30 seconds lost. (I have a cable connection).

IMO we might see far fewer entry-level questions on this board if
Microsoft hadn't so degraded the Access help system, which has been a
sore point since A2000.

If this makes sense to you, I hope you pass it on to anyone who may be
listening at Microsoft.

Thanks for your attention.

[Hans Giebenrath]

"Bruce Dodds" <br********@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:PJnXc.319979$%_6.252428@attbi_s01...

I recently started using Access 2003 for the first time. I wanted to
pass on some comments about the Help system to Access MVPs who frequent
this board. I'm doing this in the hope that some of what I say may be
passed on to Microsoft.

Microsoft has implemented a combination local and web based help system
in Access 2003. The local Help installed on your hard drive is fast, but
the content is abbreviated. For really useful help you have to use
Microsoft Office online.

The problem with this is that it's way too slow. This is not just a
quibble. About thirty years ago IBM did a renowned White Paper on the
effect of response time on productivity. It found that a change from one
second to subsecond response time improved productivity. Having to wait
30 seconds for help to be displayed has an effect that goes beyond just
the 30 seconds lost. (I have a cable connection).

IMO we might see far fewer entry-level questions on this board if
Microsoft hadn't so degraded the Access help system, which has been a
sore point since A2000.

If this makes sense to you, I hope you pass it on to anyone who may be
listening at Microsoft.

Thanks for your attention.

AFAIK, the online help was implemented FOR MVPs so they could answer
questions more accurately in newsgroups!

[Allen Browne]

Thank you for your comments, Bruce.

For anyone who is not aware, you can (and should) disable the online help
and just go with the local help, through:
Tools | Options | General | Service Options | Online Content.

Then if you need to search the knowledgebase, open the browser to
support.microsoft.com. That seems to me to be the best of both worlds: fast
local help, and the slower web-based help only when you ask for it.

The help is certainly improved over A2000 and A2002, but is not yet back to
the standard it was in A97, e.g.with the searching. Let me assure you that
MS has heard from us on this issue, with a considerable level of decibels.

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia.
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Bruce Dodds" <br********@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:PJnXc.319979$%_6.252428@attbi_s01...

I recently started using Access 2003 for the first time. I wanted to pass
on some comments about the Help system to Access MVPs who frequent this
board. I'm doing this in the hope that some of what I say may be passed on
to Microsoft.

Microsoft has implemented a combination local and web based help system in
Access 2003. The local Help installed on your hard drive is fast, but the
content is abbreviated. For really useful help you have to use Microsoft
Office online.

The problem with this is that it's way too slow. This is not just a
quibble. About thirty years ago IBM did a renowned White Paper on the
effect of response time on productivity. It found that a change from one
second to subsecond response time improved productivity. Having to wait 30
seconds for help to be displayed has an effect that goes beyond just the
30 seconds lost. (I have a cable connection).

IMO we might see far fewer entry-level questions on this board if
Microsoft hadn't so degraded the Access help system, which has been a sore
point since A2000.

If this makes sense to you, I hope you pass it on to anyone who may be
listening at Microsoft.

Thanks for your attention.

[Bruce Dodds]

Allen Browne wrote:

Thank you for your comments, Bruce.

For anyone who is not aware, you can (and should) disable the online help
and just go with the local help, through:
Tools | Options | General | Service Options | Online Content.

Then if you need to search the knowledgebase, open the browser to
support.microsoft.com. That seems to me to be the best of both worlds: fast
local help, and the slower web-based help only when you ask for it.

The help is certainly improved over A2000 and A2002, but is not yet back to
the standard it was in A97, e.g.with the searching. Let me assure you that
MS has heard from us on this issue, with a considerable level of decibels.

Thanks, Allen. One can disable online help, and I have done so. The
problem is that the local help doesn't have much in it, or at least
that's my impression based on my use of it so far.

[Tony Toews]

"Hans Giebenrath" <no****@invalid.com> wrote:

X-Complaints-To: ab***@vnet-inc.com
Another posting from a troll hangout. vnet-inc.com.
AFAIK, the online help was implemented FOR MVPs so they could answer
questions more accurately in newsgroups!

We've been complaining since A2000 that help is terrible. We're not at all impressed
with A2003 help either. I still use A97 help whenever I need to lookup something.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

[Wayne Morgan]

In Access go to Help|Contact Us. Choose the option to "Send us your
comments". The more people MS hears from directly, the better they listen.

--
Wayne Morgan
Microsoft Access MVP
"Bruce Dodds" <br********@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:opoXc.73346$mD.61812@attbi_s02...

Allen Browne wrote:

Thank you for your comments, Bruce.

For anyone who is not aware, you can (and should) disable the online help
and just go with the local help, through:
Tools | Options | General | Service Options | Online Content.

Then if you need to search the knowledgebase, open the browser to
support.microsoft.com. That seems to me to be the best of both worlds:
fast local help, and the slower web-based help only when you ask for it.

The help is certainly improved over A2000 and A2002, but is not yet back
to the standard it was in A97, e.g.with the searching. Let me assure you
that MS has heard from us on this issue, with a considerable level of
decibels.

Thanks, Allen. One can disable online help, and I have done so. The
problem is that the local help doesn't have much in it, or at least that's
my impression based on my use of it so far.

[Bruce Dodds]

Wayne Morgan wrote:

In Access go to Help|Contact Us. Choose the option to "Send us your
comments". The more people MS hears from directly, the better they listen.

Heh. I was going to, but in my copy of Access Help|Contact Us lists just
their web site address "For all of our support offerings".

Maybe the fact that I'm using a corporate license copy has something to
do with it. Or maybe MVPs get a special version of Access offering the
option of sending feedback. :)

[Hans Giebenrath]

"Tony Toews" <tt****@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:qp********************************@4ax.com...

"Hans Giebenrath" <no****@invalid.com> wrote:

X-Complaints-To: ab***@vnet-inc.com
Another posting from a troll hangout. vnet-inc.com.

AFAIK, the online help was implemented FOR MVPs so they could answer
questions more accurately in newsgroups!

We've been complaining since A2000 that help is terrible. We're not at

all impressed with A2003 help either. I still use A97 help whenever I need to lookup something.
Tony
--

The truth is the truth, Tony, no matter where it comes from.

Thanks for reminding us once again that your knowledge of Access does not
extend beyond 1997.

Hans

[Wayne Morgan]

Roger, try this link instead.

http://office.microsoft.com/assistan...ES790020061033

--
Wayne Morgan
Microsoft Access MVP
"Bruce Dodds" <br********@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:EfpXc.320189$%_6.100131@attbi_s01...

Wayne Morgan wrote:

In Access go to Help|Contact Us. Choose the option to "Send us your
comments". The more people MS hears from directly, the better they
listen.

Heh. I was going to, but in my copy of Access Help|Contact Us lists just
their web site address "For all of our support offerings".

Maybe the fact that I'm using a corporate license copy has something to do
with it. Or maybe MVPs get a special version of Access offering the option
of sending feedback. :)

[Bruce Dodds]

Wayne Morgan wrote:

Roger, try this link instead.

http://office.microsoft.com/assistan...ES790020061033

Wayne, thanks for the link. I did send a comment.

[Albert D. Kallal]

"Bruce Dodds" <br********@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:opoXc.73346$mD.61812@attbi_s02...

Thanks, Allen. One can disable online help, and I have done so. The
problem is that the local help doesn't have much in it, or at least that's
my impression based on my use of it so far.

The problem here is that VB code help is separate from ms-access help.

So, to get "help" for coding stuff..you have to take a different road

For example, lets find some info on "not in list" event.

I would go:

ctrl-g
alt-H (for help)
<Hit Enter Key>

Now, type in your search:

not in list
<Hit Enter Key>

You will find this works VERY well (and, in fact, this approach ignores the
on line help without having to change the setting). And, the help produced
is quite good in this case....
--
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pl*****************@msn.com
http://www.attcanada.net/~kallal.msn

[Bruce Dodds]

Albert D. Kallal wrote:

The problem here is that VB code help is separate from ms-access help.

So, to get "help" for coding stuff..you have to take a different road

For example, lets find some info on "not in list" event.

I would go:

ctrl-g
alt-H (for help)
<Hit Enter Key>

Now, type in your search:

not in list
<Hit Enter Key>

You will find this works VERY well (and, in fact, this approach ignores the
on line help without having to change the setting). And, the help produced
is quite good in this case....

You're right. There's a dramatic difference in what gets returned for
"Form Object" by Offline Help, Online Help, and VB Help. The first is
almost useless; the second is imprecise and slow; but VB Help actually
returned an entry for the form object.

So thank you for the great advice. However, why aren't forms, which are
Access objects, described in Access Help?

[Albert D. Kallal]

"Bruce Dodds" <br********@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:j7wXc.316131$a24.9306@attbi_s03...

So thank you for the great advice. However, why aren't forms, which are
Access objects, described in Access Help?
Well, I think that a normal person (one who is NOT a developer) would not
use the term "object".

If you just type in "forms" in the help..then you do get a good list...

If you don't use the vb side..but the access side...then you get help
orientated towards the end user (stuff like creating a form).

If you use the vb side for help...then the list is orientated towards
developers....
--
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pl*****************@msn.com
http://www.attcanada.net/~kallal.msn

[Trevor Best]

Allen Browne wrote:

Thank you for your comments, Bruce.

For anyone who is not aware, you can (and should) disable the online help
and just go with the local help, through:
Tools | Options | General | Service Options | Online Content.

Then if you need to search the knowledgebase, open the browser to
support.microsoft.com. That seems to me to be the best of both worlds: fast
local help, and the slower web-based help only when you ask for it.

Is there an online site for VB help as well? My MSDN Library is hosed
and I can't find CD2, which it keeps asking for.

--

\\\\\\
\\ \\ Windows is searching
\ \ For your sig.
\ \ Please Wait.
\__\

['69 Camaro]

Hi, Trevor.

Perhaps this is the MSDN online library for VB you were looking for?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...asp?frame=true

HTH.

Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips.

(Any human can read my reply E-mail address and should alter it so that a
message will be forwarded to me. Spammers are free to use my UNALTERED
reply E-mail address. I will *never* get those messages!)
"Trevor Best" <nospam@localhost> wrote in message
news:41***********************@auth.uk.news.easyne t.net...

Allen Browne wrote:

Thank you for your comments, Bruce.

For anyone who is not aware, you can (and should) disable the online help and just go with the local help, through:
Tools | Options | General | Service Options | Online Content.

Then if you need to search the knowledgebase, open the browser to
support.microsoft.com. That seems to me to be the best of both worlds: fast local help, and the slower web-based help only when you ask for it.

Is there an online site for VB help as well? My MSDN Library is hosed
and I can't find CD2, which it keeps asking for.

--

\\\\\\
\\ \\ Windows is searching
\ \ For your sig.
\ \ Please Wait.
\__\

[Trevor Best]

'69 Camaro wrote:

Hi, Trevor.

Perhaps this is the MSDN online library for VB you were looking for?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...asp?frame=true

HTH.

Gunny

Yup, thanks.

'89 Golf GTI 16V :-)

--

\\\\\\
\\ \\ Windows is searching
\ \ For your sig.
\ \ Please Wait.
\__\

[Sherwood Wang]

"Bruce Dodds" <br********@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:PJnXc.319979$%_6.252428@attbi_s01...

I recently started using Access 2003 for the first time. I wanted to
pass on some comments about the Help system to Access MVPs who frequent
this board. I'm doing this in the hope that some of what I say may be
passed on to Microsoft.

Microsoft has implemented a combination local and web based help system
in Access 2003. The local Help installed on your hard drive is fast, but
the content is abbreviated. For really useful help you have to use
Microsoft Office online.

The problem with this is that it's way too slow. This is not just a
quibble. About thirty years ago IBM did a renowned White Paper on the
effect of response time on productivity. It found that a change from one
second to subsecond response time improved productivity. Having to wait
30 seconds for help to be displayed has an effect that goes beyond just
the 30 seconds lost. (I have a cable connection).

IMO we might see far fewer entry-level questions on this board if
Microsoft hadn't so degraded the Access help system, which has been a
sore point since A2000.

If this makes sense to you, I hope you pass it on to anyone who may be
listening at Microsoft.

Thanks for your attention.

cdma only 4 "entry-level questions" please. is why mvp here all time now.
cdma not 4 pros ok?

*Sherwood Wang MVP*

[Larry Linson]

"Sherwood Wang" <sh****@waynes.net> wrote

cdma only 4 "entry-level questions" please.
is why mvp here all time now.
cdma not 4 pros ok?

The poster calling himself "Sherwood Wang" is not a Microsoft Access MVP. He
is merely the resident troll and disruptive poster using one of his many
aliases. He does not answer questions but just tries to confuse the issue.

CDMA is _not_ only for entry-level questions. See the FAQ at
http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm. That FAQ is also posted here
daily.

Larry Linson

[Hans Giebenrath]

"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in message
news:0ZcYc.1121$XK5.193@trnddc02...

"Sherwood Wang" <sh****@waynes.net> wrote

> cdma only 4 "entry-level questions" please.
> is why mvp here all time now.
> cdma not 4 pros ok?
The poster calling himself "Sherwood Wang" is not a Microsoft Access MVP.

He is merely the resident troll and disruptive poster using one of his many
aliases. He does not answer questions but just tries to confuse the issue.

CDMA is _not_ only for entry-level questions. See the FAQ at
http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm. That FAQ is also posted here
daily.

Larry Linson

[Note to readers: Wang is of course right. The real pros left this NG
years ago. All that's left are Microsoft zero-wage sycophants, such as
Larry and Tony and several others. All they can do is quote from a help
file or post a URL. There won't be any professional discussions in this NG
until Microsoft orders them back to the MS public NGs and they take all
their clueless newbies with them.]

[Tony Toews]

"Hans Giebenrath" <no****@invalid.com> wrote:

X-Complaints-To: ab***@vnet-inc.com

Please ignore the above posting and others which are somewhat bizarre.

Note to persons new to this newsgroup. One person, with many identities, is being
rather disruptive. If you see a bizarre posting it's probably the work of this
disruptive person..

Check the headers of the posting. If you see the following the posting likely can be
ignored. Of course, there will likely be other headers to be added to this list.

Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
or
X-Abuse-Report: ab***@teranews.com
or
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
or
Organization: 100ProofNews.com - Unlimited Downloads - $8.95/Month
or
X-Complaints-To: ab***@vnet-inc.com
or
Message-ID: <something>.nntpserver.com

You can also change your NewsReader program settings to ignore off-topic posts. See
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/ for more information.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

[Hans Giebenrath]

"Tony Toews" <tt****@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:qo********************************@4ax.com...
Hans Giebenrath" <no****@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:E4********************@vnet-inc.com...>

"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in message
news:0ZcYc.1121$XK5.193@trnddc02...

"Sherwood Wang" <sh****@waynes.net> wrote

> cdma only 4 "entry-level questions" please.
> is why mvp here all time now.
> cdma not 4 pros ok?
The poster calling himself "Sherwood Wang" is not a Microsoft Access MVP. He

is merely the resident troll and disruptive poster using one of his many
aliases. He does not answer questions but just tries to confuse the

issue.
CDMA is _not_ only for entry-level questions. See the FAQ at
http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm. That FAQ is also posted here
daily.

Larry Linson

[Note to readers: Wang is of course right. The real pros left this NG
years ago. All that's left are Microsoft zero-wage sycophants, such as
Larry and Tony and several others. All they can do is quote from a help
file or post a URL. There won't be any professional discussions in this

NG until Microsoft orders them back to the MS public NGs and they take all
their clueless newbies with them.]

Please ignore the above posting and others which are somewhat bizarre.

Note to persons new to this newsgroup. One person, with many identities,

is being rather disruptive. If you see a bizarre posting it's probably the work of this disruptive person..

Check the headers of the posting. If you see the following the posting likely can be ignored. Of course, there will likely be other headers to be added to this list.
Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
or
X-Abuse-Report: ab***@teranews.com
or
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
or
Organization: 100ProofNews.com - Unlimited Downloads - $8.95/Month
or
X-Complaints-To: ab***@vnet-inc.com
or
Message-ID: <something>.nntpserver.com

You can also change your NewsReader program settings to ignore off-topic posts. See http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/ for more information.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

[Note to Readers: See, it's true! All that's left are Microsoft zero-wage
sycophants, such as
Larry and Tony and several others. All they can do is quote from a help
file or post a URL.]

[Larry Linson]

FYI, Wang and Giebenrath are both "sockpuppets", aliases of Resident Troll
and Disruptive Poster Don. We don't know what kind of answers Don is capable
of, these days, because he doesn't actually answer questions using his many
aliases, he just snipes at those who do.

This is no fairy tale: Once upon a time, when he still posted under his
name, he actually did provide some useful answers here. It's sad that he
went over the edge and only tries to hurt the newsgroup, now.
Larry Linson

[Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]]

To be fair, what is most sad is that during those formative years when he
was a useless moron in some posts and a useful expert in others that people
did not slam down hard on the former as often as they praised the latter.
The troll was thereby nourished and was able to grow into someone entirely
useless. The best we can hope for at this point is an aneurysm....

MichKa

"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in message
news:6jwYc.3576$UI6.1706@trnddc08...

FYI, Wang and Giebenrath are both "sockpuppets", aliases of Resident Troll
and Disruptive Poster Don. We don't know what kind of answers Don is capable of, these days, because he doesn't actually answer questions using his many aliases, he just snipes at those who do.

This is no fairy tale: Once upon a time, when he still posted under his
name, he actually did provide some useful answers here. It's sad that he
went over the edge and only tries to hurt the newsgroup, now.
Larry Linson

[XMVP]

[Newbies: This is called "The Gathering of the Guilty." Kaplan, Linson,
Meyer, Toews, and a few other low-lifes come together every once in a while
to reassure themselves that they didn't destroy this NG.]

"Michael (michka) Kaplan [MS]" <mi*****@online.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:41********@news.microsoft.com...

To be fair, what is most sad is that during those formative years when he
was a useless moron in some posts and a useful expert in others that people did not slam down hard on the former as often as they praised the latter.
The troll was thereby nourished and was able to grow into someone entirely
useless. The best we can hope for at this point is an aneurysm....

MichKa

"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in message
news:6jwYc.3576$UI6.1706@trnddc08...

FYI, Wang and Giebenrath are both "sockpuppets", aliases of Resident Troll and Disruptive Poster Don. We don't know what kind of answers Don is

capable

of, these days, because he doesn't actually answer questions using his

many

aliases, he just snipes at those who do.

This is no fairy tale: Once upon a time, when he still posted under his
name, he actually did provide some useful answers here. It's sad that he
went over the edge and only tries to hurt the newsgroup, now.
Larry Linson

[Larry Linson]

"XMVP" <ac***********@hotmail.com> wrote

[Newbies: This is called "The Gathering of
the Guilty." Kaplan, Linson, Meyer, Toews,
and a few other low-lifes come together every
once in a while to reassure themselves that
they didn't destroy this NG.]

We are delighted that, despite your worst efforts, _YOU_ were unable to
destroy the newsgroup when you went over the edge and tried so hard to do
so.

The difference between us is that we actually answer questions here and you
are only disruptive. And, as I said, and Michael said, it is very sad
because you once showed potential.

[XMVP]

"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in message
news:tTLYc.2692$OQ6.439@trnddc09...

"XMVP" <ac***********@hotmail.com> wrote

> [Newbies: This is called "The Gathering of
> the Guilty." Kaplan, Linson, Meyer, Toews,
> and a few other low-lifes come together every
> once in a while to reassure themselves that
> they didn't destroy this NG.]
We are delighted that, despite your worst efforts, _YOU_ were unable to
destroy the newsgroup when you went over the edge and tried so hard to do
so.

The difference between us is that we actually answer questions here and

you are only disruptive. And, as I said, and Michael said, it is very sad
because you once showed potential.

[Note to Readers: Larry is a paranoid-schizophrenic. He thinks he knows
everybody he doesn't know.]

[Sherwood Wang]

"XMVP" <ac***********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gO********************@vnet-inc.com...

"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in message
news:tTLYc.2692$OQ6.439@trnddc09...

"XMVP" <ac***********@hotmail.com> wrote

> [Newbies: This is called "The Gathering of
> the Guilty." Kaplan, Linson, Meyer, Toews,
> and a few other low-lifes come together every
> once in a while to reassure themselves that
> they didn't destroy this NG.]

We are delighted that, despite your worst efforts, _YOU_ were unable to
destroy the newsgroup when you went over the edge and tried so hard to do so.

The difference between us is that we actually answer questions here and

you

are only disruptive. And, as I said, and Michael said, it is very sad
because you once showed potential.

[Note to Readers: Larry is a paranoid-schizophrenic. He thinks he knows
everybody he doesn't know.]

is true! mr larry say he know me 2 but i not from adam know him yes?

*Sherwood Wang MVP*

[Larry Linson]

"Sherwood Wang" <sh****@waynes.net> wrote in response to XMVP:

is true! mr larry say he know me 2 . . .

And this is known as the "Gathering of the Resident Troll's Sockpuppets"
because his own aliases are the only posts he can ever get to agree with
him.