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Necessity: mother of programming

P: n/a
Access is okay, and it's been fun learning VB, but I've realized I've been
trying to develop an application, not just a desktop database. It's time to
fire up VS.NET and crack that C# book.

I appreciate the tremendous help received from those kind enough to respond
to my posts.

Best wishes,

deko
Nov 12 '05 #1
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8 Replies


P: n/a
"deko" <dj****@hotmail.com> wrote:
Access is okay, and it's been fun learning VB, but I've realized I've been
trying to develop an application, not just a desktop database.


Hmm, well, my clients will disagree with you. They're quite happy with the apps I've
built. 20-30 users in all day long.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Nov 12 '05 #2

P: n/a
RE/
Access is okay, and it's been fun learning VB, but I've realized I've been
trying to develop an application, not just a desktop database. It's time to
fire up VS.NET and crack that C# book.

I appreciate the tremendous help received from those kind enough to respond
to my posts.


Keep in mind the distinction between front and back end.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like might really be talking JET vs
Client/Server.
--
PeteCresswell
Nov 12 '05 #3

P: n/a
"deko" <dj****@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<DF******************@newssvr25.news.prodigy. com>...
Access is okay, and it's been fun learning VB, but I've realized I've been
trying to develop an application, not just a desktop database. It's time to
fire up VS.NET and crack that C# book.

I appreciate the tremendous help received from those kind enough to respond
to my posts.

Best wishes,

deko


Dont' bother with C# if you've taken the trouble to learn VB. Except
for some rather obscure things such as not being able to mark events
as <NonSerialized> in VB, VB and C# are identical in scope. C# was
designed as a rather pathetic sop to C and C++ programmers who can't
bear to be parted from their braces and their semi-colons - both
completely redundant in a modern programming language, I think.

Edward
--
The reading group's reading group:
http://www.bookgroup.org.uk
Nov 12 '05 #4

P: n/a
I've heard that VB is considered a toy language (by C programmers), and that
VB has some limitations compared to C-based languages. Can you really
accomplish the same things with VB? How about cross-platform integration?
Wouldn't C# have an advantage here?

"Edward" <te********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:25**************************@posting.google.c om...
"deko" <dj****@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<DF******************@newssvr25.news.prodigy. com>...
Access is okay, and it's been fun learning VB, but I've realized I've been trying to develop an application, not just a desktop database. It's time to fire up VS.NET and crack that C# book.

I appreciate the tremendous help received from those kind enough to respond to my posts.

Best wishes,

deko


Dont' bother with C# if you've taken the trouble to learn VB. Except
for some rather obscure things such as not being able to mark events
as <NonSerialized> in VB, VB and C# are identical in scope. C# was
designed as a rather pathetic sop to C and C++ programmers who can't
bear to be parted from their braces and their semi-colons - both
completely redundant in a modern programming language, I think.

Edward
--
The reading group's reading group:
http://www.bookgroup.org.uk

Nov 12 '05 #5

P: n/a
"deko" wrote
I've heard that VB is considered
a toy language (by C programmers),
And, C is considered an obscure language, full of curly braces and
semicolons by some VB programmers. I'm not sure what your point is -- any
language will have some proponents and some detractors. If you are going to
write an Operating System to knock Windows out of its #1 spot, then you'd
best be looking at neither VB.NET nor C# nor any other "managed code
solution" -- plain ol' C or C++ would be the compiler of choice, and
probably an Assembler to create machine code.
and that VB has some limitations compared
to C-based languages.
Erm. What is a "C-based language"? I think you are being confused by
comments on the suitabilty of classic C, C++, versus DOS Basic or classic VB
for particular purposes. I wouldn't want to (couldn't) write an OS with
classic VB, but I certainly wouldn't want to create a database application
with classic C, either.
Can you really accomplish the same
things with VB? How about cross-
platform integration?
C# and VB.NET are both "managed code" languages that run in the .NET
framework environment. At present, that environment is limited to Windows,
but there are some efforts to implement it on other platforms -- none, so
far, have reached completion. So, they both run on the same platform
(platforms when/if the .NET framework is implemented on another platform).
Wouldn't C# have an advantage here?


No.

You aren't separating the past from the present and future. The past is "C
vs VB"; the present and future is C# and/or VB.NET (or, if you want to get
out of the Windows World, Java or PHP or Perl or ???).

One good argument for moving from classic VB or VBA to C# is one that a good
many colleagues use: they must continue to maintain classic VB applications
that aren't ever going to be converted to VB.NET, and the differences
between similarly named functions and features are sufficiently confusing
when you switch back and forth between classic VB and VB.NET that it takes
some "transition time". Because classic VB and C# are so different in syntax
and nomenclature, they don't have that difficulty switching back and forth.
That makes perfect sense to me.
Nov 12 '05 #6

P: n/a
"deko" <dj****@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2d*******************@newssvr21.news.prodigy .com>...
I've heard that VB is considered a toy language (by C programmers), and that
VB has some limitations compared to C-based languages. Can you really
accomplish the same things with VB? How about cross-platform integration?
Wouldn't C# have an advantage here?


Frankly, who cares what "C programmers" think? They're like marathon
runners who choose to do it in fancy dress. Running a marathon is
hard enough without adding to the effort. In any case, that view is
somewhat out of date now that VB.NET has inheritance, polymorphism,
encapsulation and all the other bells and whistles of OO.

As I said in my first response, VB and C# are (AFAIK) interchangeable
except for some very arcane areas. Cross-platform integration is not
affected because both languages are compiled to the same intermediate
language. Anything that you can't do with VB can be done by simply
building an assembly (DLL) using the appropriate language (C#, C++
etc.) and referencing it in code.

Edward
--
The reading group's reading group:
http://www.bookgroup.org.uk
Nov 12 '05 #7

P: n/a
great comments, guys

sometimes it's not easy to cut through the hype. I've been encouraged to
come up to speed on C#, but I think VB is easier -- or at least that's what
I know...
"deko" <dj****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2d*******************@newssvr21.news.prodigy. com...
I've heard that VB is considered a toy language (by C programmers), and that VB has some limitations compared to C-based languages. Can you really
accomplish the same things with VB? How about cross-platform integration?
Wouldn't C# have an advantage here?

"Edward" <te********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:25**************************@posting.google.c om...
"deko" <dj****@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<DF******************@newssvr25.news.prodigy. com>...
Access is okay, and it's been fun learning VB, but I've realized I've been trying to develop an application, not just a desktop database. It's time to fire up VS.NET and crack that C# book.

I appreciate the tremendous help received from those kind enough to respond to my posts.

Best wishes,

deko


Dont' bother with C# if you've taken the trouble to learn VB. Except
for some rather obscure things such as not being able to mark events
as <NonSerialized> in VB, VB and C# are identical in scope. C# was
designed as a rather pathetic sop to C and C++ programmers who can't
bear to be parted from their braces and their semi-colons - both
completely redundant in a modern programming language, I think.

Edward
--
The reading group's reading group:
http://www.bookgroup.org.uk


Nov 12 '05 #8

P: n/a
> > I've heard that VB is considered a toy language (by C programmers), and
that


I think C programmers sneer at VB-only programmers because C/C++
requires a depth of knowledge to properly produce a program that VB
does not. Let me explain.

There are many terribly, horribly ugly VB programs and scripts out
there. Bad programmers can produce a working program by
cutting-and-pasting code from elsewhere, posting on usenet and
elsewhere for help on the parts they don't understand, and generally
making a mess of things on the parts they write from scratch (e.g. 30
if statements, cut/pasted entire code blocks). I know--I've seen this
myself with my supervisor and his in-house applications. It is
possible to program in VB, with moderate success, without all your
required knowledge.

The same can be said for Access, and it's no coincidence. Access was
built to allow 'the newbies' as well as 'the professionals' the
ability to generate working database applications. The 'my first
Access database' for each person is a horrible kludge, violating every
programming practice and law of database design. It uses the
Switchboard. All forms are neon-green. A separate font is used for
each control. Everything is stored in one table, ---OR--- the same
information is stored in twenty different tables. Every time you need
a new report for a new month, you create a new report, and a new
query, and a new form. Generating yearly reports takes a full day of
work. Quarterly reports are 'not possible'. Security is implemented
by setting the menu form to fullscreen with *no form border*, causing
much distress for your users--of course, 'that's the only way it will
work', says you.
Let me add one last thing: if you're writing a database application,
and someone recommends you implement it in MSVC6, MAN-SLAP THEM IN THE
FACE. You don't need a reason, just DO IT. It's like writing a web
app purely in C--no one else does it, why should you?
Pete
Nov 12 '05 #9

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