Hi Fergus,
I do it in Herfried style this time.
[color=blue]
> I copied that from one of the advisers in the dotnet.academic group.[/color]
When[color=blue]
> I first read it I thought that it was very well worded and full of
> sensitivity. I don't think it's too long, myself. Remember, each person[/color]
coming[color=blue]
> here for the first time will be reading that as if it is a conversation to
> them. They have the time to read a few sentences when it is politely[/color]
telling[color=blue]
> them that their presence is welcomed - but that it would be better for[/color]
them to[color=blue]
> try elsewhere.
>[/color]
First of all we agree totaly.
My Idea was that there are a lot of people visiting this newsgroup, for who
is the not abstract English not so easy to read. I think that we have to
keep that in mind. (Although it is normaly not a problem, they have the
documentation to read too and that is often in bad English).
Therefore I think it hat to be polite but short to the subject. Therefore
was my thought such a sentence can be best done by someone who is a real
Englishman. But maybe you can make it and Herfried, Armin and I can look it
over. Think about your sentence more bellow about the communication aspect.[color=blue]
>
> Unfortunately, I do believe that Herfried's and Armin's "This is[/color]
vb.net..[color=blue]
> Please go" iis actually short to the point of being rude. It implies that[/color]
our[color=blue]
> visitors are wrong to be here - not that they are welcome but we are not[/color]
the[color=blue]
> best people for them. To me it is better than "Not here. Go away", but not
> hugely so.[/color]
Yes but that can be the difference in languages.
"Please go" is maybe in the English language much more tyrrany than in
German.
The word Please in this sentence is in my eyes too very bad (in Dutch it is
rude to use it in this way) I thought it is in English the same. But maybe
Herfried and Armin suspect that it is polite.
[color=blue]
> I find reading the "This is vb.net.. Please go" messages more of a[/color]
chore[color=blue]
> than others do reading OT messages. This is simply because there have been[/color]
so[color=blue]
> many times when I or someone else <has> had an answer to the query. So[/color]
what if[color=blue]
> this is the wrong area? Maybe I or someone can help. Let us do so. We[/color]
should[color=blue]
> be telling visitors that if they get no response then elsewhere may be[/color]
better[color=blue]
> <for them>. We shouldn't be implying that they are trespassing on <our>[/color]
sacred[color=blue]
> ground.[/color]
Agree, but if there is a better place, we have too tell them that. And
sometimes it is so out of topic, that it is better not to help I think.
And then one of your so called Microsofties kickes on it in this newsgroup
and start helping about HTML, VB6 or IIS. :-(
Giving long Helps on VB6 or Powerpoint questions makes that this group
becomes visited by a lot of people from there.
And after a while the people who have VB.net questions can not find that
questions anymore in the Google VB.net group.
I think it has to do with good sence.
[color=blue]
> It sometimes seems to me that Herfried and Armin are just waiting so[/color]
that[color=blue]
> they can jump on people who wander in here 'inappropriately'. And[/color]
sometimes it[color=blue]
> seems to be a race to see who can kick them out soonest.
>[/color]
I sometimes too get that Idea, but not only Herfried and Armin.
Refering to JavaScript in a VB.net question means that they get a "Please
go" and the strangest is that when people only use C# in the same sentence
they will be direct helped.
[color=blue]
> Cor, I have training as a psychologist and therapist, so I am always
> looking to be aware of how people will perceive what I'm typing to them.[/color]
When[color=blue]
> you're dealing with a text-only communication - no faces, no expressions,[/color]
no[color=blue]
> gestures, no tone of voice - it is important to be very careful how you
> express yourself. That's why I use :-) so much. Whenever there is even a[/color]
hint[color=blue]
> of the other person misunderstanding, it is best to be clear. To soften,[/color]
where[color=blue]
> possible.[/color]
I have not trained as a psycholist, but this is what I say for year and that
started with the begin of e-mail.[color=blue]
>
> Sorry to get so heavy on this topic, Cor, but my feelings about this[/color]
have[color=blue]
> been getting stronger and stronger. I'm taking the opportunity to tell[/color]
you, as[color=blue]
> it allows me to say what I feel without having to address Herfried and[/color]
Armin[color=blue]
> directly. I've been getting close to doing so, but I like and admire them
> both, and don't want to cause bad feeling. I'm sure that the rudeness that[/color]
I[color=blue]
> perceive isn't their intention. But I am certain that it is ignorance.[/color]
I think that this very on Topic, this is how we behave our self in this
newsgroup and not in a Mainthread.
I do absolute not think that it is for Herfried and Armin to be rude. Take a
look at the de.vbnet.language group.
That is totaly different but what Herfried did write. That is a very
diciplined group. But that has maybe to do with the way people from German
acts in oposite from people from cities like London and Amsterdam. People
from major cities from the world acts in a different way than people who are
not from those.[color=blue]
>
> You can say that I'm being over sensitive. I <am> sensitive when it[/color]
comes[color=blue]
> to these sort of issues (but, hey, that's part of being a therapist). Many
> times I'm probably being more careful than necessary. But it's the same
> principle as in programming. How many error checks and exception handlers[/color]
do[color=blue]
> you insert 'just in case' - for errors you'd never really expect? That's
> considered good, robust programming. Ditto with using more words than[/color]
fewer[color=blue]
> to communicate with friendliness.
>[/color]
I agree totaly, but is not always true I think, keep in mind that not
everybody understand non abstract English in this newsgroup.
Although reading is of course more easy than writing. Everybody who realy
makes programmes is sticked too use the English language for documentation.[color=blue]
>[/color]
I read most of your messages.
And thank you for reading my answers.
:)[color=blue]
>
> Regards,[/color]
Cor[color=blue]
>
>[/color]
