Best practices - GUI standards

I hope this is on topic this looks like a pretty generic PHP group. If not
I'm a nooB so be gentle.

Question:
Could anyone recommend a "best practice" for maintaining commonality of what
the user sees on a medium scale PHP application? For example: button size,
color, font, alignment, labels, etc.

My intent is to build an application that has been pre-designed in phases,
piece by piece and outsource most of the coding. There must be a common
look and feel. Is there a better way then me simply listing them out? Ex:
all buttons are 10px by 20px, all font arial 10pt, etc.

Thanks in advance for any input.

- Ben

Ben wrote:[color=blue]
> I hope this is on topic this looks like a pretty generic PHP group.[/color]
If not[color=blue]
> I'm a nooB so be gentle.
>
> Question:
> Could anyone recommend a "best practice" for maintaining commonality[/color]
of what[color=blue]
> the user sees on a medium scale PHP application? For example: button[/color]
size,[color=blue]
> color, font, alignment, labels, etc.
>
> My intent is to build an application that has been pre-designed in[/color]
phases,[color=blue]
> piece by piece and outsource most of the coding. There must be a[/color]
common[color=blue]
> look and feel. Is there a better way then me simply listing them[/color]
out? Ex:[color=blue]
> all buttons are 10px by 20px, all font arial 10pt, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance for any input.
>
> - Ben[/color]

"Ben" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:w2yOd.15195$0h5.3989@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=blue]
>I hope this is on topic this looks like a pretty generic PHP group. If not
> I'm a nooB so be gentle.
>
> Question:
> Could anyone recommend a "best practice" for maintaining commonality of
> what
> the user sees on a medium scale PHP application? For example: button
> size,
> color, font, alignment, labels, etc.
>
> My intent is to build an application that has been pre-designed in phases,
> piece by piece and outsource most of the coding. There must be a common
> look and feel. Is there a better way then me simply listing them out?
> Ex:
> all buttons are 10px by 20px, all font arial 10pt, etc.[/color]

Do NOT hard code any sizes like this as it should be left up to the user to
decide what font sizes THEY want.

There is no such thing as a "standard" way in which web pages should be
built, apart from the rules of (X)HTML. What "look and feel" you adopt
should, however, be consistent across ALL pages.

Take a look at http://www.tonymarston.co.uk/sample/index.html where you can
run my sample application online for some ideas. Note that you are able to
change font sizes at will.

--
Tony Marston

http://www.tonymarston.net

[color=blue]
> Thanks in advance for any input.
>
> - Ben
>
>[/color]

"Ben" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:w2yOd.15195$0h5.3989@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=blue]
> I hope this is on topic this looks like a pretty generic PHP group. If[/color]
not[color=blue]
> I'm a nooB so be gentle.
>
> Question:
> Could anyone recommend a "best practice" for maintaining commonality of[/color]
what[color=blue]
> the user sees on a medium scale PHP application? For example: button[/color]
size,[color=blue]
> color, font, alignment, labels, etc.
>
> My intent is to build an application that has been pre-designed in phases,
> piece by piece and outsource most of the coding. There must be a common
> look and feel. Is there a better way then me simply listing them out?[/color]
Ex:[color=blue]
> all buttons are 10px by 20px, all font arial 10pt, etc.[/color]

Not really. Having a style guide is a fairly common practice in the
industry. Aside from the visual elements of the site, you would probably
want to document writing style as well, things like "cannot vs could not" in
error messages.

Your "sample" is quite interesting even if I was just googling around...

heh heh it deserves being in my favorites for a more careful inspection
later :D

"Chung Leong" <chernyshevsky@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZvednVCSMuc6mZbfRVn-1g@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> "Ben" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:w2yOd.15195$0h5.3989@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=green]
> > I hope this is on topic this looks like a pretty generic PHP group. If[/color]
> not[color=green]
> > I'm a nooB so be gentle.
> >
> > Question:
> > Could anyone recommend a "best practice" for maintaining commonality of[/color]
> what[color=green]
> > the user sees on a medium scale PHP application? For example: button[/color]
> size,[color=green]
> > color, font, alignment, labels, etc.
> >
> > My intent is to build an application that has been pre-designed in[/color][/color]
phases,[color=blue][color=green]
> > piece by piece and outsource most of the coding. There must be a common
> > look and feel. Is there a better way then me simply listing them out?[/color]
> Ex:[color=green]
> > all buttons are 10px by 20px, all font arial 10pt, etc.[/color]
>
> Not really. Having a style guide is a fairly common practice in the
> industry. Aside from the visual elements of the site, you would probably
> want to document writing style as well, things like "cannot vs could not"[/color]
in[color=blue]
> error messages.
>
>[/color]

Ok thanks. I figured styles would be it but wasn't sure if you could go
another route through a PHP class (or equiv) and if that might be better.

Good point and thanks again.

- Ben

"Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cuevbr$3f2$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...[color=blue]
>
> "Ben" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:w2yOd.15195$0h5.3989@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=green]
> >I hope this is on topic this looks like a pretty generic PHP group. If[/color][/color]
not[color=blue][color=green]
> > I'm a nooB so be gentle.
> >
> > Question:
> > Could anyone recommend a "best practice" for maintaining commonality of
> > what
> > the user sees on a medium scale PHP application? For example: button
> > size,
> > color, font, alignment, labels, etc.
> >
> > My intent is to build an application that has been pre-designed in[/color][/color]
phases,[color=blue][color=green]
> > piece by piece and outsource most of the coding. There must be a common
> > look and feel. Is there a better way then me simply listing them out?
> > Ex:
> > all buttons are 10px by 20px, all font arial 10pt, etc.[/color]
>
> Do NOT hard code any sizes like this as it should be left up to the user[/color]
to[color=blue]
> decide what font sizes THEY want.
>
> There is no such thing as a "standard" way in which web pages should be
> built, apart from the rules of (X)HTML. What "look and feel" you adopt
> should, however, be consistent across ALL pages.
>
> Take a look at http://www.tonymarston.co.uk/sample/index.html where you[/color]
can[color=blue]
> run my sample application online for some ideas. Note that you are able to
> change font sizes at will.
>
> --
> Tony Marston
>
> http://www.tonymarston.net
>[/color]

Cool stuff! For this application I will need to hard code it though, or at
least soft code using a SS that WE can change for them. After 15+ years in
the industry I'm in I've learned there's a trade-off with certain built in
flexibility. The more flexible, the more support. If we give users the
right to change button size, fonts and colors we'll be flooded with calls
because they can't see black on black, the buttons are too large, too small
and so on. I agree with you in general but we'll need to have control over
this part, for this target bunch of users. Was simply curious if PHP had
some sort of object you could build to control styles easily...and am pretty
ignorant to PHP as some of my questions may lead you to believe!

Really like the way you used tabs, will definately be incorporating a
similar look to our app.

Thanks for the reply!

- Ben
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > Thanks in advance for any input.
> >
> > - Ben
> >
> >[/color]
>
>[/color]

On 2005-02-10, Ben <no@spam.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> Question:
> Could anyone recommend a "best practice" for maintaining commonality
> of what the user sees on a medium scale PHP application? For example:
> button size, color, font, alignment, labels, etc.[/color]

With regard to fonts / colors / sizes (ie. layout) you could abstract
your way out of it by implementing a "widget" class or classes that the
rest of the application must use to render to screen.

For labels and error messages you could probably do the same thing by
creating some sort of "message" class.

You probably won't be able to fully avoid style guide lines and the
like but the above would reduce it a lot.

--
Cheers,
- Jacob Atzen

Ben wrote:[color=blue]
> I hope this is on topic this looks like a pretty generic PHP group. If not
> I'm a nooB so be gentle.
>
> Question:
> Could anyone recommend a "best practice" for maintaining commonality of what
> the user sees on a medium scale PHP application? For example: button size,
> color, font, alignment, labels, etc.[/color]

This does not belong to PHP or HTML. It belongs to CSS.
[color=blue]
>
> My intent is to build an application that has been pre-designed in phases,
> piece by piece and outsource most of the coding. There must be a common
> look and feel.[/color]

Use a common CSS stylesheet and you will have that common look and feel.
[color=blue]
> Is there a better way then me simply listing them out? Ex:
> all buttons are 10px by 20px, all font arial 10pt, etc.[/color]

button {
height: 10px;
width: 20px;
}
body {
font-family: Arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt;
}

"Ben" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:xAJOd.4899$Sq5.3541@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:cuevbr$3f2$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...[color=green]
>>
>> "Ben" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:w2yOd.15195$0h5.3989@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=darkred]
>> >I hope this is on topic this looks like a pretty generic PHP group. If[/color][/color]
> not[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > I'm a nooB so be gentle.
>> >
>> > Question:
>> > Could anyone recommend a "best practice" for maintaining commonality of
>> > what
>> > the user sees on a medium scale PHP application? For example: button
>> > size,
>> > color, font, alignment, labels, etc.
>> >
>> > My intent is to build an application that has been pre-designed in[/color][/color]
> phases,[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > piece by piece and outsource most of the coding. There must be a
>> > common
>> > look and feel. Is there a better way then me simply listing them out?
>> > Ex:
>> > all buttons are 10px by 20px, all font arial 10pt, etc.[/color]
>>
>> Do NOT hard code any sizes like this as it should be left up to the user[/color]
> to[color=green]
>> decide what font sizes THEY want.
>>
>> There is no such thing as a "standard" way in which web pages should be
>> built, apart from the rules of (X)HTML. What "look and feel" you adopt
>> should, however, be consistent across ALL pages.
>>
>> Take a look at http://www.tonymarston.co.uk/sample/index.html where you[/color]
> can[color=green]
>> run my sample application online for some ideas. Note that you are able
>> to
>> change font sizes at will.
>>
>> --
>> Tony Marston
>>
>> http://www.tonymarston.net
>>[/color]
>
> Cool stuff! For this application I will need to hard code it though, or
> at
> least soft code using a SS that WE can change for them. After 15+ years
> in
> the industry I'm in I've learned there's a trade-off with certain built in
> flexibility. The more flexible, the more support. If we give users the
> right to change button size, fonts and colors we'll be flooded with calls
> because they can't see black on black, the buttons are too large, too
> small
> and so on.[/color]

Having the ability to change certain settings easily does not mean giving
the user direct access to those methods as they are liable to screw up You
could give them an offline sample so they could experiment in their own
"sandbox" and only put that modified CSS file in the live environment once
it had been thoroughly tested and approved.
[color=blue]
> I agree with you in general but we'll need to have control over
> this part, for this target bunch of users. Was simply curious if PHP had
> some sort of object you could build to control styles easily...and am
> pretty
> ignorant to PHP as some of my questions may lead you to believe![/color]

By outputting proper XHTML code all style is controlled from a CSS file, not
within any PHP code at all.
[color=blue]
> Really like the way you used tabs, will definately be incorporating a
> similar look to our app.[/color]

I got that idea from http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slidingdoors/

--
Tony Marston

http://www.tonymarston.net

"Ben" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:QpJOd.4898$Sq5.2124@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=blue]
>
> Ok thanks. I figured styles would be it but wasn't sure if you could go
> another route through a PHP class (or equiv) and if that might be better.[/color]

Nah, there's no technical solution to this. If a developer thinks that
buttons align to the right are stupid, then he'll align the buttons to the
left even if you give him a function/CSS file. The same for things like text
size, colors, wording. People have strong opinion in these matters. If you
don't write down exactly what you want and put your foot down ("Dammit Tony,
we're using 12px Arial--end of discussion") , you'll have people debating
endlessly over a million details.

"Ben" <no@spam.com> wrote in
news:w2yOd.15195$0h5.3989@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:
[color=blue]
> Question:
> Could anyone recommend a "best practice" for maintaining commonality
> of what the user sees on a medium scale PHP application? For example:
> button size, color, font, alignment, labels, etc.[/color]

You really need to clarify what you mean by "PHP application".
That means clarifying it for those of us that may answer
your questions, but it may mean clarifying it for yourself ;-)

If you mean you will be using PHP to code the business logic
for your "application", and the user interface will be via
the WWW, then standard design principles for authoring
WWW pages apply, unless you have a specifically restricted
user audience, such as on an intranet or kiosk.

--
Dave Patton
Canadian Coordinator, Degree Confluence Project
http://www.confluence.org/
My website: http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/

Tony Marston wrote:[color=blue]
> Take a look at http://www.tonymarston.co.uk/sample/index.html where
> you can run my sample application online for some ideas. Note that
> you are able to change font sizes at will.[/color]

Tony,

You're getting no thanks from me!

..... I've just been to your web site, and come across your document on
Object Orientation. I haven't used OO for about 10 years, but as I'm doing
more and more PHP I can see the advantages in it for me.

So, No Thanks from me... because I'll be spending all tomorrow reading your
document and playing with PHP OO instead of watching the rugby!

Pete.
Derby.

"PeteC" <newsgroupsdemon@removethisbitacutecomputing.co.uk > wrote in message
news:cum9u8$oaa$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...[color=blue]
> Tony Marston wrote:[color=green]
>> Take a look at http://www.tonymarston.co.uk/sample/index.html where
>> you can run my sample application online for some ideas. Note that
>> you are able to change font sizes at will.[/color]
>
> Tony,
>
> You're getting no thanks from me!
>
> .... I've just been to your web site, and come across your document on
> Object Orientation. I haven't used OO for about 10 years, but as I'm doing
> more and more PHP I can see the advantages in it for me.
>
> So, No Thanks from me... because I'll be spending all tomorrow reading
> your document and playing with PHP OO instead of watching the rugby![/color]

Whoops. I hope your team doesn't lose, then.

You could always watch the rugby and come back to my site later. It will
still be there.

--
Tony Marston

http://www.tonymarston.net

Tony Marston wrote:
<snip>[color=blue]
> I got that idea from http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slidingdoors/[/color]

Accessible navigation link is an interesting topic. Especially there
is even a better hack
<http://www.sitepoint.com/print/css-anthology-tips-tricks-4>

--
<?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?>
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com Blog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/

Best practices - GUI standards

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