JS Stops working in IE6

Here is an app: www.sheldonlg.com/JSstops.htm

It passes strict W3C validation.

**In IE6**, if you click on the plus, a sub-table appears. Click on the
plus from the subtable and nothing happens. It should expand one or two
more levels of subtables.

Modifying just about anything will cause the all the subtable (or at
least one more to appear.

For example, removing the line:

<div id="header">Test</div>

will cause it to expand two more levels while removing the line:

<div class="DHTMLSuite_menuItem_top_regular" id="DHTMLSuite_menuItem1"
style="FLOAT: left"></div>

or the block:

<tr>
<td align="center">
<select id="fiscalPeriod" name="fiscalPeriod">
<option></option>
</select>
</td>
</tr>

or the line:

<caption style="FONT-WEIGHT: 800; FONT-SIZE: 16px">Spending</caption>

will cause it to expand one more level.

(I distilled this from my AJAX framework app and corrected all the
changes that IE6 made when I did a document:write in the menu bar).

I thought that it has something to do with the css for the menuing
system, but I don't think so now. I say this because if I remove the
entire menuing tags:

<div class="DHTMLSuite_menuBar_top">
<div class="DHTMLSuite_menuItem_top_regular"
id="DHTMLSuite_menuItem1" style="FLOAT: left"></div>
</div>

then is only expands one more level. The last level still doesn't work.

Can someone give me a clue as to what is happening here?

re: JS Stops working in IE6

sheldonlg wrote:Correction: It should expand two more levels.
Correction: document.write in the address bar.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

sheldonlg wrote:I have the entire menuing removed, tags and css stuff, in
www.sheldonlg.com/JSstops2.htm.

This expands three levels, but not the fourth. Removing things causes
all four levels to appear.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

In alt.html, sheldonlg wrote:
I don't see any "levels" at all, though when I look at the source of the
page, there is a horrendous use of nested tables. Is that what you mean?
What is that empty dropdown box for?

Looks like a maintenance nightmare to me.

See:
http://tekrider.net/html/doctype.php
http://tekrider.net/html/fontsize.php

I also don't see any JavaScript that might do what your "onclick" code
is calling.

Using Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9b5) Gecko/2008050509
Firefox/3.0b5 with JavaScript enabled. No IE here.

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Windows

re: JS Stops working in IE6

sheldonlg meinte:Well I suppose it doesn't work in *any* browser. And "refreshView is not
defined". Apart from that: nuttin' to click.

Gregor

x'post cancelled

--
http://photo.gregorkofler.at ::: Landschafts- und Reisefotografie
http://web.gregorkofler.com ::: meine JS-Spielwiese
http://www.image2d.com ::: Bildagentur für den alpinen Raum

re: JS Stops working in IE6

Gregor Kofler wrote:
Forget the buttons. They are only there because if I remove them in
this sample app, then the strange behavior does not occur. I am only
talking about the tables of values.

Click on the "+" (at "level 1". That opens an inner table (level 2")
while changing to a "-". Click on the "+" in level 2. It does nothing
in IE6. In Firefox, it opens up another nested inner table (level 3)
and changes to a "-". Clicking on the "+" in level 3 opens the last
inner table (leve 4).

re: JS Stops working in IE6

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:The levels refer to the depth of the nested table. The empty dropdown
is not empty in the real app, only this sample app. It is there because
if I remove it, then all the levels ("+" signs) expand the inner tables.
I pared down the original to get to the simplest case that shows the
strange behavior in IE6
Not at all and, more importantly, THAT is what the customer wants
I found this article a little confusing.
This one is very helpful.
The only onclick of importance is for the "+" and "-" signs and that is
toggleSet and is there. Forget about all the others. They don't matter
for this discussion.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

>Here is an app: www.sheldonlg.com/JSstops.htmIt works for me under IE6 / Windows XP SP2
What configuration are you using for test?

Also IE's conditional comments are working only for HTML and not for
external CSS files, so your last block in CSS file does nothing but
breaking your CSS table. See also
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb250496.aspx

If you want IE-specific adjustments right in CSS table, use
expressions:

someElement {
width: 20em; /* default value */
width: expression(javascript code here) /* IE adjustment */
}

re: JS Stops working in IE6

VK wrote:You get down to the line without a "+"?
I am running XP SP2 and I have IE6 on it. It is version
6.0.2900.xpsp_sp2)070227-2254
cipher Strenght: 128-bit
Update Versions:; SP2;
Is that a general rule to not have IE specific conditionals in CSS?
Thanks for the tip.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

sheldonlg wrote:I just called my son and had him try it on his machine that has IE6.
His expanded twice (mine does only once), but not the third time (to get
to the last, fourth, line). His version differs from mine in that after
the sp2 he has "_qfe" while I have "_gdr" (I just not is that my
previous reply was in error. It should have said:
6.0.2900.xpsp_sp2_gdr.070227-2254 )

re: JS Stops working in IE6

On May 18, 12:34 am, sheldonlg <sheldonlgwrote:Of course not. IE specific conditionals in CSS are wrong not because
they are "theoretically wrong" or "should not be used" etc. They
simply do not work if they are not on HTML page. So your comments in
CSS file are not parsed and do nothing.
you are welcome

re: JS Stops working in IE6

On May 18, 12:40 am, sheldonlg <sheldonlgwrote:OK, I think I know the problem. The table default display style
differs by browsers: "block", "table-block" and crazy mess. This is
why one _never_ _ever_ does two things with tables:

1) you do not override default display style.
2) you do not set it to any explicit values. Instead you set it to
"" (empty string) if needed to reset to default.

So in your code all initially visible tables must have no display rule
at all: carefully check CSS and scripting.

All initially hidden tables have display:none

To show a table you set display to empty string:
tableReference.style.display = '';

To hide it again you set to none:
tableReference.style.display = 'none';

re: JS Stops working in IE6

VK wrote:I made that change and it didn't change anything.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

On May 18, 1:33 am, sheldonlg <sheldonlgwrote:I really need to go now, sorry. I will take another look today evening.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

VK wrote:Thank you.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

On May 18, 1:54 am, sheldonlg <sheldonlgwrote:Seems like some broken table glitch on IE6. As you may notice the
third table is blocked for user interaction, see the cursor style or
try to set a simple alert on image click.
If we replace

<td colspan="15">
<table id="contract_900135_01-Jan-2008_both_all" ...

to

<td>
<table id="contract_900135_01-Jan-2008_both_all" ...

then the things are coming back to life right away.
Are you sure that there are indeed exactly 15 cells to span?

re: JS Stops working in IE6

VK wrote:No, there aren't. I have always used a large number when I wanted to
span all columns of a table and it has always worked in the past. Using
the large number avoided the necessity of going back and changing things
if a column was added or removed later on in the development cycle.

I changed it to the exact number of columns in the containing table, and
it made no difference. I can't simply remove it (as you indicated
above) because that breaks the formatting and tries to put the inner
table into the first <tdposition of the containing table. However, as
you said above, doing that causes all the expansions to occur.

By the way, in the past (I have been wrestling with this for weeks now)
I did simply put an alert there as you suggested. It didn't alert.
Also, when I did did that, as now, the cursor style didn't change. It
is not recognizing the mouse over.

As you may have noticed, what I am trying to do with this sample app is
not to "get the sample app to work". Rather, I am trying to get at the
root cause of the problem so that I can get my real app to work. That
is why I have left the sample app at the minimum I can get to and still
have it exhibit the broken behavior. Note that if I remove the menuing
lines and all the menuing information from the CSS, that the tables
expand one additional level, but it still breaks as it does not expand
to the last (pink background, no "+") table. So, it is not the menuing.
Rather, I has to be something, as you also have surmised, in the table
stuff.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

Are you sure that there are indeed exactly 15 cells to span?That's a nasty way of doing things, really. But whatever.
No, it is not a minimum case: there is still plenty of extra stuff
floating around. For example do not use the current CSS file, just
load the page w/o styling: and the problem goes away. So either
something sneaky in your CSS rules, or some particular CSS rule acting
strange for IE6 with malformed tables. Keep cleaning up. For the
starter make a page loading an empty CSS file and then start adding
ruleset by ruleset from the current CSS checking the behavior after
each modification.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

VK wrote:
I have reduced things significantly to the point where just about any
change I make causes the behavior to disappear. It is in
www.sheldonlg.com/JSstops.htm.

In this one even changing some text causes it to expand all the way????
The css is as basic as I could pare it down do and still have the
strange behavior in IE6:

#header { padding: 2%; }
#onebar padding: 2% 50px 2% 50px; }
..exclude_form_class {visibility: hidden;}
* html .exclude_form_class {position:absolute;}

re: JS Stops working in IE6

sheldonlg wrote:In fact, I was able to trim it even a little further and put the css
into the single file www.sheldonlg.com/JSstops.htm. I moved the top:
350px; into the css area as well.

So, with this straightforward-looking file can anyone see why it doesn't
expand further than one nested table? Essentially ANY change to the
file, even text, causes it to expand all the way to the third nested table.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

On May 19, 5:48 pm, sheldonlg <sheldonlgwrote:The last sample you posted expands just fine three levels down - both
Firefox and IE6, so this time you passed the "minimum case point" :-)
That normally means that the source contains several errors and UA's
dirt tolerance exploits at once - so it is like a pack of springs,
touch one side and it starts the avalanche.
Maybe IE6 is sensitive to display changes inside of table cells, maybe
it chocks on position:absolute for nested tables - I don't know. I
never made layouts like that so I cannot tell at a glance. Did you try
to use the regular way with table under table under table with margin-
left changing so to keep the indentation growing?

re: JS Stops working in IE6

sheldonlg <sheldonlgwrote in news:ZI2dncLHiYZJ5azVnZ2dnUVZ_g-
dnZ2d@giganews.com:
This is not a javascript issue, it is a style issue.

The issue is the visibility:hidden; it dose not remove exclude_from_class,
it just hides it. It is above the other content.

Remove the visibility:hidden; give it a background-color and you will see
what is taking place. Adding back visibility:hidden just hides the issue.

Any one of the following may work.

1. For IE you may give exclude_form_class a z-index:-1;
2. Give images position:relative: z-index:100;
3. Use display:none; rather then visibility:hidden;

Some of your other examples also has a similar issue in IE7 depending on
the width of the window.

--
BootNic Monday May 19, 2008 10:29 AM
When I was young, I was put in a school for retarded kids for two
years before they realized I actually had a hearing loss...and they
called ME slow!
*Kathy Buckley*

re: JS Stops working in IE6

BootNic wrote:
No, z-index won't do. I want to have that block NOT be visible at all
until the user clicks a button (not shown in this sample app) to change
it style to visible. At that point it should appear at a fixed position
on the screen -- regardless of scrolling the rest of the document -- and
appear above the rest of the document. Using display: hide will cause
it to fit itself into wherever it was clicked. Also, it is not an
inline block. There are multiple places in the (real) document that
invoke it to appear. So, the proper setting is "visibility".

The only reason that the block is even here in this sample code is that
removing it causes the "+" to expand to all four levels of nesting. Of
course, other things in this sample app do that as well, such as
removing the 'caption" stuff or even changing some text.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

VK wrote:Hmmm. It doesn't for me. In fact, after going to about:blank, deleting
cookies and temp files, exiting IE and coming back in it still did not
expand past the first level.

Could it simply be a browser setting?

Previously, did it stop for you at some level?
That is not what the customer wants and it would make the page grow
excessively long. Remember that the top line is just one of many such
lines and each one expands to the next level. Same goes at the next
level and so on. We could wind up with a page that is horrendously
long. He wants an expansion of detail by drilling down one at a time.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

sheldonlg wrote:VK, could you see if JSstops8.htm works for you? Psrhaps JSstops1.htm?

re: JS Stops working in IE6

On May 19, 7:06 pm, sheldonlg <sheldonlgwrote:IE 6.0.2900.2180 / JScript 5.6.8834 / Windows XP SP2

http://www.sheldonlg.com/JSstops.htm
Expands up to "Purchase Supplier" and back w/o any problems.

http://www.sheldonlg.com/JSstops8.htm
Doesn't go further than the second level

I still think you have to redesign the thole approach - it is too much
dirt tolerance dependent. I don't mean you have to make all tables
being visible at once. Keep the top one visible but others
display:none, just set margin-left values:

[table 1]
[table 2]
[table 3]
[table 4]

re: JS Stops working in IE6

sheldonlg <sheldonlgwrote in
news:C92dnYGdeef5CKzVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@giganews.com :
[snip]visibility:hidden; the element still takes up space, holds the position,
it's just hidden. The issue is that it is on top of the image you wish to
be clicked, and you can't click through exclude_form_class to the image.
So you change the content, all that does is change where you clickable
image is. The issue remains, when exclude_form_class is over a clickable
image, the image is not clickable.

For the purpose of this issue remove visibility:hidden from
exclude_form_class class, assign a background-color, now keep in mind that
visibility:hidden; does not remove the element from the flow of the
document, it still takes up space. The only thing this will do is allow you
to see the issue. The issue is the same regardless of visibility
hidden/visible.

Until you can comprehend the issue, there is no hope for a resolution.

--
BootNic Monday May 19, 2008 12:28 PM
All things come to him who waits - provided he knows what he is
waiting for.
*Woodrow T. Wilson*

re: JS Stops working in IE6

VK wrote:Thanks. Then I have point to go back to. Look at this one, then. I
would try to clean a little more, but I have no way of knowing what will
break for you.
What do you mean by "dirt tolerance dependent"? This app validates
perfectly in W3C. (Remember that I am a php/application/back-end
programmer and JS and CSS are relatively new to me).
Table 1 may have, say, 30 elements. Table 2 may have 30 elements.
Tables 3 and 4 may each have 20 or thirty elements. In another table
display choice (by reporting unit rather than by supplier) there are six
level deep. You can see where this is going. We need to drill down on
a single line, one at a time, into the nested tables. BTW, in the
actual app I do have indenting as you suggest. However, the visibility
is all hidden until made to appear.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

BootNic wrote:I think I see now what you are saying. So, if I understand you
correctly, I can still keep the visibility as "hidden" (because I want
it to appear in the same spot no matter which of the many buttons is
clicked to make it visible), but to give it a z-index of "-1". Then,
when made visible, also change the z-index to "100". When hiding it
again, also change the z-index back to "-1". That way it will appear on
top when I want, but will not be "clicked through" when hidden. Do I
understand you clearly now?

I tried this on the sample app by putting z-index: -1 in the class
exclude_form_class (see www.sheldonlg.com/JSstops9.htm) and it expanded
all the way.

Note: In the real app (not this sample) that section is to appear as a
"position: fixed". Of course, IE6 doesn't know how to handle
"position:fixed", so there are workarounds to make it happen that I am
using (margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto).

I am going to make these changes in the real app. An early thank you
BootNic, and a thank you also to VK for your efforts and to all the
others who tried to help.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

sheldonlg <sheldonlgwrote in
news:2fSdncrzhOGcMqzVnZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@giganews.com :
[snip]You could keep visibility:hidden, but display:none would be better.

If you are setting a position fixed/absolute, then all visibility:hidden
does is take up space, you can toggle display and have the same effect
without taking up space when it's not shown, and therefore no need to
toggle z-index. The position will remain the same regardless if it's
display:none or visibility:hidden, just one takes up space and the other
does not.

[snip]

--
BootNic Monday May 19, 2008 1:15 PM
A well-developed sense of humor is the pole that adds balance to
your step as you walk the tightrope of life
*William Arthur Ward*

re: JS Stops working in IE6

BootNic wrote:I just tried it on my real app and it worked perfectly. I thank you so
very much. This has been dogging me for over a month now. It was the
last bug (until new ones are found :-) ) that I had to fix.

With 20-20 hindsight, the problem/solution was so obvious that I can
kick myself for not seeing it.

Thanks.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

On May 19, 8:28 pm, sheldonlg <sheldonlgwrote:I did not mean an offense. Yet table manipulations in fact is not a
rocket science and aside of "display" property values glitch between
different browsers it is pretty straightforward with browsers
instructed to get as much as they can from the provided source. Here
for instance a rather nasty test with multiple tbodies:
http://transmodal.sourceforge.net/tm...e_torture.html
Opera gets funny on rendering but still functional, IE6, FF and Sa are
just fine.
I was peering again at your current test cases and still couldn't find
an obvious reason of such strange IE6 behavior.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

VK wrote:Given that a table may have more than one `tbody' element per Specification,
Opera 9.27's behavior is simply a bug and unlikely to be the result of
built-in error correction.

You should make improvements on your test cases if you want them to be
reliable. This one is not even Valid to begin with, and I don't mean the
multiple TBODY elements (obviously). Press Ctrl+Alt+V in Opera, go to
http://validator.w3.org/ otherwise.


PointedEars
--
Prototype.js was written by people who don't know javascript for people
who don't know javascript. People who don't know javascript are not
the best source of advice on designing systems that use javascript.
-- Richard Cornford, cljs, <f806at$ail$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>

re: JS Stops working in IE6

On May 19, 11:06 pm, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@web.de>
wrote:It is a valid usage of the Table DOM - simply no one ever used it
widely because very a very few of people know that a single table can
have N amount of bodies. So more probability that some producers
simply skipped on implementing full QA-tested blocks for that. One
"laziness goptcha" victim is here: Opera :-)
Oh, who cares of this old guiser. It endlessly complains on anything
new what happened in the Web over the last ten years. I am still too
young to come listen an old man mumbling complains on how the world
became bad - especially from an electronic one :-)

re: JS Stops working in IE6

go to http://validator.w3.org/otherwiseYet OK, a bit of respect to the ol' man. I placed the caption where it
makes him all green-happy :-)
http://transmodal.sourceforge.net/tm...e_torture.html
(reload to see)

doesn't help to Opera too much though.

re: JS Stops working in IE6

VK <schools_ring@yahoo.comwrote in news:dac37d32-efe3-4e0d-8378-
0fbd1337851f@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com:
<col span="1000" width="*">

What should a ua do when there are less then 1000 columns?

--
BootNic Monday May 19, 2008 5:11 PM
The more you find out about the world, the more opportunities there
are to laugh at it.
*Bill Nye*

re: JS Stops working in IE6

On May 20, 1:11 am, BootNic <bootnic.bou...@gmail.comwrote:Same as with 999 columns left if only <col span="1" width="100">
provided or with .foobar ruleset if not a single foobar class is
presented: nothing.
col is not an element to render, it is a preliminary instruction how
to treat certain types of elements if they will be further presented
in the container.