New toolbar/dropdpwn in IE7

When I open a new window using javascript in IE 7, that has had all the
toolbars turned off, I get a full window width, greyed out, dropdown
menu at the top of the window with the address of the current page
displayed. (I sometimes also see a similar dropdown menu in FF).

What is this dropdown formally referred to as, and how can I turn it off
using javascript (when I create a new window)?

Andrew Poulos

re: New toolbar/dropdpwn in IE7

Andrew Poulos wrote:[color=blue]
> When I open a new window using javascript in IE 7, that has had all the
> toolbars turned off, I get a full window width, greyed out, dropdown
> menu at the top of the window with the address of the current page
> displayed. (I sometimes also see a similar dropdown menu in FF).
>
> What is this dropdown formally referred to as, and how can I turn it off
> using javascript (when I create a new window)?[/color]

Ok, I've discovered it's the address bar which according to <url:
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/11/21/495507.aspx > "...IE7 will
show the address bar on *all* internet windows..."

So I guess it means that my clients who run courses on their intranets
will complain about visible address bars on all their courses as soon as
IE 7 final is released.

I understand the need for security and for protecting the foolhardy but
why not allow me, the end user, the choice as to how a window displays?

Andrew Poulos

re: New toolbar/dropdpwn in IE7

Andrew Poulos wrote:[color=blue]
> Andrew Poulos wrote:[/color]
<snip>[color=blue][color=green]
>> What is this dropdown formally referred to as, and how can I
>> turn it off using javascript (when I create a new window)?[/color]
>
> Ok, I've discovered it's the address bar which according to <url:
> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/11/21/495507.aspx > "
> ...IE7 will show the address bar on *all* internet windows..."
>
> So I guess it means that my clients who run courses on their
> intranets will complain about visible address bars on all their
> courses as soon as IE 7 final is released.[/color]

For at least half a decade now the contributors to this group have been
warring people that any design predicated on a requirement to control
the features of a newly opened window was a bad design because no such
absolute control was possible (in any browser). And we have been
regularly ignored by individuals who did not see the issues in their
superficial testing.

You won't get much sympathy when you eventually suffer the consequences
of the issues that you decided to disregard when you were warned about
them.
[color=blue]
> I understand the need for security and for protecting the
> foolhardy but why not allow me, the end user, the choice as
> to how a window displays?[/color]

As the 'user' you have control. You can choose to use a browser that
provides you with the configuration options that you want to use. That
won't help you clients much though if someone sold them on the idea that
an Intranet application can get away with being IE only.

Richard.

re: New toolbar/dropdpwn in IE7

Andrew Poulos said the following on 5/14/2006 6:00 AM:[color=blue]
> Andrew Poulos wrote:[color=green]
>> When I open a new window using javascript in IE 7, that has had all
>> the toolbars turned off, I get a full window width, greyed out,
>> dropdown menu at the top of the window with the address of the current
>> page displayed. (I sometimes also see a similar dropdown menu in FF).
>>
>> What is this dropdown formally referred to as, and how can I turn it
>> off using javascript (when I create a new window)?[/color]
>
> Ok, I've discovered it's the address bar which according to <url:
> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/11/21/495507.aspx > "...IE7 will
> show the address bar on *all* internet windows..."[/color]

As it should be. Same with the status bar. MS has finally started
listening to people complaining about features being removed without
consent of the user. "Phishing" seems to be the latest buzzword
associated with such uses.
[color=blue]
> So I guess it means that my clients who run courses on their intranets
> will complain about visible address bars on all their courses as soon as
> IE 7 final is released.[/color]

If you continue to use HTML apps, then yes.
[color=blue]
> I understand the need for security and for protecting the foolhardy but
> why not allow me, the end user, the choice as to how a window displays?[/color]

Use an .hta if you want that kind of control.
IE only, total control over the window, and the Sandbox gets 10 times as
big.

--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq & newsgroup weekly
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

re: New toolbar/dropdpwn in IE7

Randy Webb wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
> > I understand the need for security and for protecting the foolhardy but
> > why not allow me, the end user, the choice as to how a window displays?[/color]
>
> Use an .hta if you want that kind of control.
> IE only, total control over the window, and the Sandbox gets 10 times as
> big.[/color]

Or (just another alternative) create a one line .bat file like:
iexplore -k startPage.html
create a nice .ico logo to assign to this file on the desktop and
destribute to all customers. In the kiosk mode you get chromeless
window in full screen, and the entire navigation process is in your
full power (users can only press Alt+F4 to get ride of you).

re: New toolbar/dropdpwn in IE7

VK said the following on 5/14/2006 2:45 PM:[color=blue]
> Randy Webb wrote:[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> I understand the need for security and for protecting the foolhardy but
>>> why not allow me, the end user, the choice as to how a window displays?[/color]
>> Use an .hta if you want that kind of control.
>> IE only, total control over the window, and the Sandbox gets 10 times as
>> big.[/color]
>
> Or (just another alternative) create a one line .bat file like:
> iexplore -k startPage.html
> create a nice .ico logo to assign to this file on the desktop and
> destribute to all customers.[/color]

A .bat file in WinXP with this content:

iexplore -k startPage.html

Flashes a black DOS screen then does nothing.

It *might* work if the path to iexplore is in the PATH statement in the
autoexec.bat or if the batch file has a full path to iexplore or it is
executed from the iexplore folder.

--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq & newsgroup weekly
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

re: New toolbar/dropdpwn in IE7

Randy Webb wrote:[color=blue]
> A .bat file in WinXP with this content:
>
> iexplore -k startPage.html
>
> Flashes a black DOS screen then does nothing.
>
> It *might* work if the path to iexplore is in the PATH statement in the
> autoexec.bat or if the batch file has a full path to iexplore or it is
> executed from the iexplore folder.[/color]

Shouldn't be like that as command.com gets %Program Files% path from
the system. You can Start > Run > iexplore even if %Program Files% is
not set in autoexec.bat. Yet can be all kind of changes on Win XP SP2
On a wide run it is indeed much better to use full path both for
executable and for the file to load

re: New toolbar/dropdpwn in IE7

VK said the following on 5/14/2006 5:18 PM:[color=blue]
> Randy Webb wrote:[color=green]
>> A .bat file in WinXP with this content:
>>
>> iexplore -k startPage.html
>>
>> Flashes a black DOS screen then does nothing.
>>
>> It *might* work if the path to iexplore is in the PATH statement in the
>> autoexec.bat or if the batch file has a full path to iexplore or it is
>> executed from the iexplore folder.[/color]
>
> Shouldn't be like that as command.com gets %Program Files% path from
> the system.[/color]

It does?
[color=blue]
> You can Start > Run > iexplore even if %Program Files% is
> not set in autoexec.bat.[/color]

That is because of the context of execution.
[color=blue]
> Yet can be all kind of changes on Win XP SP2[/color]

Some for the better, some for the worse..
[color=blue]
> On a wide run it is indeed much better to use full path both for
> executable and for the file to load[/color]

When executing as a .bat file, absolutely.

--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq & newsgroup weekly
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

re: New toolbar/dropdpwn in IE7

Richard Cornford wrote:[color=blue]
> Andrew Poulos wrote:[color=green]
>> Andrew Poulos wrote:[/color]
> <snip>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> What is this dropdown formally referred to as, and how can I
>>> turn it off using javascript (when I create a new window)?[/color]
>> Ok, I've discovered it's the address bar which according to <url:
>> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/11/21/495507.aspx > "
>> ...IE7 will show the address bar on *all* internet windows..."
>>
>> So I guess it means that my clients who run courses on their
>> intranets will complain about visible address bars on all their
>> courses as soon as IE 7 final is released.[/color]
>
> For at least half a decade now the contributors to this group have been
> warring people that any design predicated on a requirement to control
> the features of a newly opened window was a bad design because no such
> absolute control was possible (in any browser). And we have been
> regularly ignored by individuals who did not see the issues in their
> superficial testing.[/color]

I don't disagree with you but I don't decide for any of my clients what
their design should/must be. Try, for example, telling a design house
weaned on pixel perfect Photoshop based designs that liquid design
layouts are more appropriate for the web and you get polite nods. Later
you'll discover they'll complain about your incompetence.
[color=blue]
> You won't get much sympathy when you eventually suffer the consequences
> of the issues that you decided to disregard when you were warned about
> them.
>[color=green]
>> I understand the need for security and for protecting the
>> foolhardy but why not allow me, the end user, the choice as
>> to how a window displays?[/color]
>
> As the 'user' you have control. You can choose to use a browser that
> provides you with the configuration options that you want to use. That
> won't help you clients much though if someone sold them on the idea that
> an Intranet application can get away with being IE only.
>[/color]
Yes but if the user is my client who asks how can I get IE 7 to not
display an address bar and I reply "you can't because of new security
features" will they not go to someone else?

Andrew Poulos

re: New toolbar/dropdpwn in IE7

Andrew Poulos said the following on 5/14/2006 5:57 PM:[color=blue]
> Richard Cornford wrote:[/color]

<snip>
[color=blue][color=green]
>> As the 'user' you have control. You can choose to use a browser that
>> provides you with the configuration options that you want to use. That
>> won't help you clients much though if someone sold them on the idea that
>> an Intranet application can get away with being IE only.
>>[/color]
> Yes but if the user is my client who asks how can I get IE 7 to not
> display an address bar and I reply "you can't because of new security
> features" will they not go to someone else?[/color]

Probably. That is why you tell them to use an .hta app instead. Or, as
the programmer, you switch to an .hta and explain that is the only way
to satisfy the requirements.

Even then, they may go elsewhere. But if you explain why first, when
they ditch the next 3 for not being able to do it, and you are the only
one that explained why you can't, and offered a solution, then they come
back.

--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq & newsgroup weekly
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

re: New toolbar/dropdpwn in IE7

Andrew Poulos wrote:[color=blue]
> Richard Cornford wrote:[/color]
<snip>[color=blue][color=green]
>> For at least half a decade now the contributors to this
>> group have been warring people that any design predicated
>> on a requirement to control the features of a newly opened
>> window was a bad design because no such absolute control
>> was possible (in any browser). ...[/color][/color]
<snip>[color=blue]
>
> I don't disagree with you but I don't decide for any of my
> clients what their design should/must be. Try, for example,
> telling a design house weaned on pixel perfect Photoshop
> based designs that liquid design layouts are more appropriate
> for the web and you get polite nods. Later you'll discover
> they'll complain about your incompetence.[/color]

The advantage of knowing what you are talking about is that in the long
run the real incompetents are revealed. Try showing the decision makers
the design in a Mozilla browser, surreptitiously pressing Ctrl and + a
couple of times and watch the pixel prefect design fall apart, and then
show a fluid design survive the experience. Though the relationship
between fluid page design and pop-up dependent systems is questionable.

<snip>[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> I understand the need for security and for protecting
>>> the foolhardy but why not allow me, the end user, the
>>> choice as to how a window displays?[/color]
>>
>> As the 'user' you have control. You can choose to use a
>> browser that provides you with the configuration options
>> that you want to use. That won't help you clients much
>> though if someone sold them on the idea that an Intranet
>> application can get away with being IE only.
>>[/color]
> Yes but if the user is my client who asks how can I get IE 7
> to not display an address bar and I reply "you can't because
> of new security features" will they not go to someone else?[/color]

They might go to someone else who promises them that they can get IE 7
to not show the address bar, and then they will come back to you for
having the integrity not to bullshit them when they discover that this
"someone else" cannot deliver.

(On the other hand, it is worth your while having a very good look at IE
7 related registry settings in case this feature can be turned off.
Possible in an internal Intranet (if an undesirable effort to enact)
while not worth considering in a public Internet context. That is, if
you are going to say it cannot be done be very sure that it cannot be
done first.)

Richard.