styling list for navigation

What's the current wisdom on styling lists for navigation. What I'd
like is for:

links and background colors to be 100% of the width.
multi-line OK (ie links will wrap). Padding OK. Same width in IE as
other browsers

I'm finding that IE differs from conforming browsers in the way it
calculates width after adding padding (yes, strict doctype.) I have a
feeling that things have moved on fro the old ListAPart article on this.

Also, I thought IE6 had no trouble with margin auto on a fixed
width (with strict), but I'm having trouble with that and have resorted
to the old text-align hack.

Jeff

Jeff wrote:

Quote:

What's the current wisdom on styling lists for navigation.

http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

Quote:

I'm finding that IE differs from conforming browsers in the way it
calculates width after adding padding (yes, strict doctype.)

You must be triggering quirks mode for that to happen.
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/doctype/

Quote:

Also, I thought IE6 had no trouble with margin auto on a fixed
width (with strict),

It doesn't. You must be triggering quirks mode. Post a URL.

--
Berg

Bergamot wrote:

Quote:

Jeff wrote:

Quote:

> What's the current wisdom on styling lists for navigation.

>
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

Thanks, I'll give it a read through

Quote:

>

Quote:

> I'm finding that IE differs from conforming browsers in the way it
>calculates width after adding padding (yes, strict doctype.)

>
You must be triggering quirks mode for that to happen.
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/doctype/

Thanks, you seem to have it. The validator complained about the url
which I had as:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/strict.dtd">

Changed to this:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-html40-19980424/strict.dtd">

Should I be using 4.1 or is it 4.01?

Quote:

>

Quote:

> Also, I thought IE6 had no trouble with margin auto on a fixed
>width (with strict),

>
It doesn't. You must be triggering quirks mode. Post a URL.

I think I have it now, but here, you won't like it though:

http://www.fmtn.org/test2/city_gover...ion/index.html

Jeff

Quote:

>

In article <CYadnXa-g76Lh0bVnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.comwrote:

Quote:

Should I be using 4.1 or is it 4.01?

Quote:

I use

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

Quote:

>
http://www.fmtn.org/test2/city_gover...ion/index.html
>

Nice look but a few things you better attend to. I will just mention
that in this doctype, you don't have /type endings...

--
dorayme

dorayme wrote:

Quote:

In article <CYadnXa-g76Lh0bVnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.comwrote:
>

Quote:

>Should I be using 4.1 or is it 4.01?

>
I use
>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

Thanks, I just switched.

This whole doctype thing confuses me. It used to be enough to just
supply a URL to trigger the standard box model. Now it has to be the
right URL. When did that happen?

Quote:

>

Quote:

>http://www.fmtn.org/test2/city_gover...ion/index.html
>>

Nice look but a few things you better attend to. I will just mention
that in this doctype, you don't have /type endings...

You've seen most of this before. It has my equal height column code
and the standard page layout with inner and outer divs. The outer for
setting widths and margins and the inner for setting padding. The CMS
blocks have the 6 sides (top left, top right, left, right, bottom left,
bottom right), for setting styles if needed. Navigation is styled lists.
The CMS is mine which I'm just finishing porting from perl, it's taken a
lot longer than I wanted!

I suppose I should figure out the character set, but I've lost the
head command when I went to XP so I'm not sure what this server is sending.

I'm not touching the fonts, I do have some background colors I'll
need to change and modify the navigation.

I got fired by this client (not the city) at XMAS and he went through
a few developers before I got "hired" back. If the client wants fonts in
pixels, I'd rather just not get fired again.

Jeff

Quote:

>

Jeff wrote:

Quote:

Bergamot wrote:

Quote:

>Jeff wrote:

>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-html40-19980424/strict.dtd">
>
Should I be using 4.1 or is it 4.01?

4.01
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/..._declaration-3

Quote:

>> Also, I thought IE6 had no trouble with margin auto on a fixed
>>width (with strict),

>>
>It doesn't. You must be triggering quirks mode. Post a URL.

>
I think I have it now, but here, you won't like it though:
>
http://www.fmtn.org/test2/city_gover...ion/index.html

http://www.bergamotus.ws/screenshots/fmtn.png

It's not really a matter of like or dislike - it's a matter of
adaptability to variations in browser settings. This design does not
adapt to my large default text size. You need to correct that, first by
not relying on a fixed font size to keep the layout together, and not
setting fixed dimensions in px units for text elements. Set a fixed
width if you must but do not set a fixed height, not even in em units.

Considering this is a government site, it should be mandatory that it be
as accessible as possible. A rigid design is not conducive to that end.

Don't set font sizes in px units. If you want to know why, check the
Usenet archives coz the subject has been done to death. Set body
font-size:100% and adjust only those other elements that really need it,
like smaller type for legalese, or larger for headings.

--
Berg

Bergamot wrote:

Quote:

Jeff wrote:

Quote:

>Bergamot wrote:

Quote:

>>Jeff wrote:

><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN"
>"http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-html40-19980424/strict.dtd">
>>
>Should I be using 4.1 or is it 4.01?

>
4.01
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/..._declaration-3
>

Quote:

>>> Also, I thought IE6 had no trouble with margin auto on a fixed
>>>width (with strict),
>>It doesn't. You must be triggering quirks mode. Post a URL.

> I think I have it now, but here, you won't like it though:
>>
>http://www.fmtn.org/test2/city_gover...ion/index.html

>
http://www.bergamotus.ws/screenshots/fmtn.png
>
It's not really a matter of like or dislike - it's a matter of
adaptability to variations in browser settings. This design does not
adapt to my large default text size. You need to correct that, first by
not relying on a fixed font size to keep the layout together, and not
setting fixed dimensions in px units for text elements. Set a fixed
width if you must but do not set a fixed height, not even in em units.

OK. I've found that I can get rid of the height now that I have a
functional doctype. Thanks.

Quote:

>
Considering this is a government site, it should be mandatory that it be
as accessible as possible. A rigid design is not conducive to that end.
>
Don't set font sizes in px units. If you want to know why, check the
Usenet archives coz the subject has been done to death. Set body
font-size:100% and adjust only those other elements that really need it,
like smaller type for legalese, or larger for headings.

This is all well and good but is beyond what I am able to do. Now, if
you read the rest of this thread, you'll see that I've already been
fired once. The existing site is table based, the proposed alternative
was also and a bit of a nightmare in it's construction.

Now, if I wished to get fired again I could implement all the
suggestions those in the html groups would make. But since I don't see
myself as a fry cook at McDonalds, although I would appreciate the
increase in pay, I'll just do the best I can.

I've been involved in web work since '95. In all that time I've not
had one person ask about accessibility, I do regularly get asked to move
this over a couple pixels though or make this one pixel larger.

Jeff

Quote:

>

Jeff wrote:

Quote:

>
I've been involved in web work since '95. In all that time I've not
had one person ask about accessibility

Um, it's not likely they are even aware of issues like accessibility, so
why would you expect them to ask? It's up to you, as the supposed
expert, to inform them of such things.

--
Berg

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