In article <1132453386.157236.292730@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
"Trevor L." <tandcl@homemail.com.au> wrote:[color=blue]
> I also have a <noscript> section which warns uses that my page uses
> Javascript. Of course, unless they turn it on, they won't see the
> message about IE6 design, so I may have to rethink this.[/color]
Using a good noscript section is great. However it doesn't really get
around the problem of what to do about Javascript, so perhaps if we
consider that first.
You could simply decide that since 90% (or 80% or whatever) of people
use IE and have Javascript on by default, then you don't need to worry
about the rest. That is a perfectly valid decision, although I happen
to think it is the wrong one.
You could ask why some browsers don't use Javascript, and indeed, which
ones don't use it. One obvious possible answer to that is that search
bots from Google and others may not use Javascript. If this is still
the case, then if you have links that require Java, search engines may
have trouble indexing your site. This is usually not a good thing for
search engine position.
If people have deliberately turned Javascript off, then they may well
have a good reason for it. So just suggesting your site works better
with Javascript may not be sufficient for them to stay. The next site
is just one click away. Now the reason may be concerns about security.
If it turns out that some super Windows malware targets lots of people
via Javascript, you may find over a very short period that lots more
people turn it off. I don't say that is likely, but it is a
consideration.
Finally, even if people have Javascript turned on, which Javascript are
we talking about? As far as I know, Javascript is a proprietary term
for a scripting language from Netscape. The language Internet Explorer
uses is probably actually JScript. And the one that seems to have the
standards track is ECMAScript from Europe. So, which one are your
scripts actually targeting?
However I think the main thing people are trying to get at here is that
we all need to think about what we are doing when we use some technology
on the web. Just what problem are you solving by using Javascript?
Could the problem be solved in a better manner? Indeed, are you solving
the wrong problem with Javascript.
If you are using Javascript to detect whether a browser is IE, then it
won't work. Because of the number of people who try to do that, pretty
much all other browsers can be set to lie about which browser they are.
Sort of like a blind British Army sentry in WWII yelling "friend or
foe", and the uniformed German soldier yelling back "friend". It is
just something out of a comedy.
[color=blue][color=green]
> >I have been considering a page on my website (when I get around to
> > rewriting it) explaining that I have written the pages to meet the
> >appropriate standards[/color]
> This is very similar to what I am trying to do. The difference is that
> you use the word "standards" whereas I say IE6 ( which is not a
> standard)
> Are you saying that if one meets the CSS and HTML4.01 standards, then
> all shoud be O.K. but check that Ie6 works as well as Firefox?[/color]
Maybe a bit more involved than that, but certainly that is a good
starting point. If your page is valid as both HTML 4.01 and CSS, and
especially if it is valid Strict, you can be pretty sure that most
modern browsers will just work. That may even end up including IE7 when
it appears. There may be some problems, but once you have a general
HTML template that works, the only problems are typos and little
mistakes like that. Equally, since the CSS will apply to the whole site
usually from one or two CSS style sheets, once you get that right,
adding a new page should not cause any new problems.
If you do that right, browsers that can't handle CSS will get the HTML,
and should be fine using it. The only problems will be older browsers
that think they can handle CSS but fail. The people here can explain a
few simple tricks to help cope with these. You may however want to
check your site statistics, to see whether older browsers with problems
are still being used.
The big exception will probably be Internet Explorer 5, 5.5 and 6. Now,
you simply have to work around the problems with that, because they are
so widely used. Also, they don't have the same bugs. However, every
person who writes a standards based site encounters the same problems,
so there are solutions out there. There are lists of IE bugs. There
are lists of ways to avoid certain IE bugs. There are suggestions about
what CSS things to be careful about. I am still learning about all this.
It changes the problem from "I don't know how to make this work with
every browser", to "I just need a list of IE bug fixes".
[color=blue]
> If so, what is the best source for standards? Is it w3schools.com?[/color]
I think the folks here would prefer that you look at w3.org, who write
the standards, as some here don't seem to have a high opinion of
w3schools.com However if you have specific questions they will usually
point you to a solution. One obvious thing about standards is to use
html
http://validator.w3.org, plus the CSS validator at
http://jigsaw.w3.org to check your pages.
--
http://www.ericlindsay.com 
