multiple languages in one document

[enrique]

I want to display different languages in a single web document, each
likely with a different encoding.

I found this:
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/...0112.213804197

Can anyone comment on where things are with displaying multiple
encodings/charsets on a single page?

Thank you.

epp

[Henri Sivonen]

In article <11**********************@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
"enrique" <en************@gmail.com> wrote:

I found this:
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/...0030112.213804
197

Can anyone comment on where things are with displaying multiple
encodings/charsets on a single page?

The solution is using the UTF-8 encoding and declaring the language as
described on the above-mentioned page.

--
Henri Sivonen
hs******@iki.fi
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
Mozilla Web Author FAQ: http://mozilla.org/docs/web-developer/faq.html

[enrique]

Yes, I am aware of Unicode.

My question is about supporting two or more encodings in a single
document. I checked the XHTML DTD and it doesn't look like elements
support a "charset" attribute, with the exception of maybe four (link,
a, etc.).

Thank you.

epp

[Henri Sivonen]

In article <11*********************@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups. com>,
"enrique" <en************@gmail.com> wrote:

My question is about supporting two or more encodings in a single
document.

Not supported.

--
Henri Sivonen
hs******@iki.fi
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
Mozilla Web Author FAQ: http://mozilla.org/docs/web-developer/faq.html

[Dan]

enrique wrote:

Can anyone comment on where things are with displaying multiple
encodings/charsets on a single page?

You can't.... you'll have to either use an encoding that encompasses
all desired characters (e.g., UTF-8, which supports the entire Unicode
range), or else use named entities or numeric references to include
characters outside the encoding in use.

--
Dan

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005, Henri Sivonen wrote:

"enrique" <en************@gmail.com> wrote:

My question is about supporting two or more encodings in a single
document.

Not supported.

Since there's no mechanism for changing encoding in the middle of a
single document, I'd say it's not just a matter of "not supported",
but rather that there's nothing to support!!

However, the Subject: says that the question is about "languages" -
but "character codings" and "languages" are defined in HTML to be
independent of each other, so maybe the questioner has a deeper
problem than the one which you're trying to answer.

[Lachlan Hunt]

enrique wrote:

Yes, I am aware of Unicode.
Is there a reason why unicode is not appropriate for your needs?
My question is about supporting two or more encodings in a single
document.
That can't be done, however there is no need to do so. UTF-8, which is
one encoding of the Unicode character repertoire, should provide all the
characters you need.
I checked the XHTML DTD and it doesn't look like elements
support a "charset" attribute, with the exception of maybe four (link,
a, etc.).

If I understand you correctly, the charset attribute doesn't do what you
think it does.

eg. with this markup, in a document encoded as UTF-8:

<a href="document.html" charset="Big5">Document</a>

That is an advisory hint that document.html is encoded in Big5, and the
user agent should use that encoding in the absense of any other charset
indication, such as the Content-Type header field or meta element. It
does not indicate that the content of the <a> element ("Document" in
this case) is encoded in Big5, it is still encoded in the same character
encoding as the rest of the document.

The W3C I18n group has published some useful character encoding and
language related resourses.
http://www.w3.org/International/reso...x.html#charset
http://www.w3.org/International/reso...ndex.html#lang

--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
http://GetFirefox.com/ Rediscover the Web
http://GetThunderbird.com/ Reclaim your Inbox

[Jukka K. Korpela]

"Alan J. Flavell" <fl*****@ph.gla.ac.uk> wrote:

However, the Subject: says that the question is about "languages" -
but "character codings" and "languages" are defined in HTML to be
independent of each other, so maybe the questioner has a deeper
problem than the one which you're trying to answer.

The questioner has probably confused languages with encodings, which is
not surprising at all. But the real question might not be that deep.
In fact I suspect the real problem is "how do I write different
characters on a page comfortably", i.e. an authoring tool question.
Maybe a good Unicode editor is the solution. Or maybe some conversion
tools are needed, if one needs to combine existing texts that are in
different encodings now. (They could be converted to UTF-8 and then put
together.)

This being said, it needs to be reminded that mixing two or more
languages in one document is usually a mistake. Especially on the Web,
it is better to put each language version into a document of its own.
Language mix is mainly needed for link texts that are used to link the
different language versions to each other, and in documents that teach
or discuss languages. (Even in a scientific presentation where one
quotes a text in a different language, it might be best - on the Web -
to include just a translation of the quoted text, and add a link to the
original.)

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

[Ståle Sæbøe]

enrique wrote:

Yes, I am aware of Unicode.

My question is about supporting two or more encodings in a single
document. I checked the XHTML DTD and it doesn't look like elements
support a "charset" attribute, with the exception of maybe four (link,
a, etc.).

Thank you.

epp

If I remember correctly most of the elements to support a language
(lang) attribute, but I havent worked with XML or XHTML for a while.

I believe it is possible to present multiple encodings on a single page,
but it will be a bit tricky and involve embedding objects into it. Use
google to search for solutions for the platform you are using. Include
PHP in your search as it is available for all platforms.

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Ståle Sæbøe <ot*****@tdz.no> wrote:

If I remember correctly most of the elements to support a language
(lang) attribute, but I havent worked with XML or XHTML for a
while.
The lang attribute has absolutely nothing to do with character
encoding, which is what was discussed here. And in X(HT)ML, you are not
supposed to use it but the xml:lang attribute (which is even more
widely ignored by browsers than the lang attribute).
I believe it is possible to present multiple encodings on a single
page,
It isn't, as explained before in this thread.
but it will be a bit tricky and involve embedding objects
into it.

You can embed a page in another, but that does not make either of the
page contain multiple encodings. Besides, this fictitious solution to a
non-problem creates real problems: either the embedded page appears
visually as a separate page appearing inside a "subwindow", which is
most probably not desired, or you use CSS to hide this fact and cause
quite some trouble when the user thinks there's one page and
functionally (e.g. in saving, tabbing, link following, etc.) there
isn't.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

[Ståle Sæbøe]

Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

Ståle Sæbøe <ot*****@tdz.no> wrote:

If I remember correctly most of the elements to support a language
(lang) attribute, but I havent worked with XML or XHTML for a
while.

The lang attribute has absolutely nothing to do with character
encoding, which is what was discussed here.

How nice of you to point that out. Still not exactly off topic in my
opinion.
And in X(HT)ML, you are not
supposed to use it but the xml:lang attribute (which is even more
widely ignored by browsers than the lang attribute). In the link supplied by the original poster, w3 emphasizes the
importance of the lang attribute. Why are you not supposed to use it? It
seems immensely useful to me for a multi language page.
You can embed a page in another, but that does not make either of the
page contain multiple encodings. Besides, this fictitious solution to a
non-problem creates real problems: either the embedded page appears
visually as a separate page appearing inside a "subwindow", which is
most probably not desired, or you use CSS to hide this fact and cause
quite some trouble when the user thinks there's one page and
functionally (e.g. in saving, tabbing, link following, etc.) there
isn't.

Alright alright, geeze. I was just exploring the possibility. What is
with the attitude on these groups?

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Ståle Sæbøe <ot*****@tdz.no> wrote:

Alright alright, geeze. I was just exploring the possibility.
Explored how? What you posted here was not any exploration. It was a
suggestion to use a non-solution to a non-problem.
What is with the attitude on these groups?

Post nonsense, read comments that say it's nonsense. Then, optionally,
start whining, or start learning things. Your choice.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html