What kind of database is access?

Could someone tell me where MS-Access (current and 97?) fit(s) on the
RDBMS - ORDBMS - ODBMS spectrum?
I gather it's relational, but how does it size up against/follow SQL2/3/4
definitions and how does it compare to other database vendors?
Any articles that might be of interest? It's for an essay on database
models...

Thanks in advance,
Alex

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

re: What kind of database is access?

A.P. Hofstede wrote:[color=blue]
> Could someone tell me where MS-Access (current and 97?) fit(s) on the
> RDBMS - ORDBMS - ODBMS spectrum?
> I gather it's relational, but how does it size up against/follow
> SQL2/3/4 definitions and how does it compare to other database vendors?
> Any articles that might be of interest? It's for an essay on database
> models...
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Alex
>[/color]
Do some googling on "Jet database engine" and you may find your answers.

Bob

re: What kind of database is access?

A.P. Hofstede wrote:[color=blue]
> Could someone tell me where MS-Access (current and 97?) fit(s) on the
> RDBMS - ORDBMS - ODBMS spectrum?
> I gather it's relational, but how does it size up against/follow
> SQL2/3/4 definitions and how does it compare to other database vendors?
> Any articles that might be of interest? It's for an essay on database
> models...[/color]

Not this ol' chestnut.

I'll forgo the Access isn't a database but Jet is malarkey as this is
after all comp.databases.ms-access and not comp.databases.jet so:
Set semantics_mode off

If by RDBMS you mean a relational database management system that
conforms to all 12 rules laid down by Edgar Codd, there isn't one. Only
close approximations.

Like many database vendors, you can create a relational database in it
but it doesn't force you to. Some of the biggies like Oracle, DB/2, SQL
Server, etc are considered by many to be RDBMSs but it is possible to
create databases in them that are totally unrelational and break nearly
every rule in the book. Much of the resulting database lies sqaurely on
the shoulders of the DBA.

Access (or Jet) differs from most databases labelled as RDBMSs by being
a desktop product or file server based product so that the workstation
does the selection/sorting instead of those tasks being performed on a
server. With standard SQL methods of retrieval this can be quite slow
depending on bandwidth/amount of data.

It also has a not undocumented but seldom exploited mode of access
called ISAM, this can make a bigger more expensive database look like a
slouch, it's as far removed from SQL as a pork pie is from a vegan's
diet but if you have a shed load of data (<2GB obviously) and want
little bits of it faster than a speeding bullet then that may be for you.

--
[OO=00=OO]

re: What kind of database is access?

Trevor's comments are dead on the money.
Well worth the reading.

re: What kind of database is access?

"It also has a not undocumented but seldom exploited mode of access
called ISAM"

What is this 'mode of access', and how/when is it utilized by amateur
developers like myself? Thanks!

Jim

re: What kind of database is access?

Jim M wrote:[color=blue]
> "It also has a not undocumented but seldom exploited mode of access
> called ISAM"
>
> What is this 'mode of access', and how/when is it utilized by amateur
> developers like myself? Thanks![/color]

ISAM = Indexed Sequential Access Method
It's part of DAO.
You can use it only on local tables or tables from a back end database
if you've opened that database in code (i.e can't use on linked tables),
e.g.

Set db = dbengine(0).opendatabase("f:\mybackend.mdb")

Then you open a table directly, specify an index to search on and use
that to find records, e.g.

set rst = db.openrecordset("MyTable", dbOpenTable)
with rst
.index = "MyIndexName"
.Seek "=", MyValue
if .Nomatch then
msgbox "eeek"
else
msgbox "Yip"
end if
.close
end with
set rst = nothing

If you have many records to visit with the same value, e.g.

select * from MyTable where field1='something'

you can loop these as after the first .Seek the recordset is sorted in
that index order so you can use a combination of .seek then .MoveNext
and check for a value change to get to the end of that block matching
the criteria as there is no .Seeknext method.

The above code would not be portable so if you ever conceive of
upgrading to a SQL Server back end then you could be in for a major
re-write.

--
[OO=00=OO]

re: What kind of database is access?

Trevor Best <nospam@besty.org.uk> wrote in
news:429df67a$0$16465$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
[color=blue]
> ISAM = Indexed Sequential Access Method
> It's part of DAO.
> You can use it only on local tables or tables from a back end
> database if you've opened that database in code (i.e can't use on
> linked tables),[/color]

Er, why, then, is the term ISAM used in the drivers that support
linking to a number of non-Jet data formats, many of which have no
indexing support?

In other words, I think you're misidentifying what ISAM actually
*is*.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

re: What kind of database is access?

David W. Fenton wrote:[color=blue]
> Trevor Best <nospam@besty.org.uk> wrote in
> news:429df67a$0$16465$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
>
>[color=green]
>>ISAM = Indexed Sequential Access Method
>>It's part of DAO.
>>You can use it only on local tables or tables from a back end
>>database if you've opened that database in code (i.e can't use on
>>linked tables),[/color]
>
>
> Er, why, then, is the term ISAM used in the drivers that support
> linking to a number of non-Jet data formats, many of which have no
> indexing support?
>
> In other words, I think you're misidentifying what ISAM actually
> *is*.
>[/color]

True, they are called ISAM but you can only use the .Index and .Seek
methods on native jet tables AFAIK.

--
[OO=00=OO]

re: What kind of database is access?

Trevor,
Very interesting what you have to say about ISAM files. I
tired to run your code to do benchmarks and it worked. But how do you
traverse a table with parameters? Your function does not seem to allow
Queries...only Tables.
Could you give us a code snippet where you traverse a table
with a particular criteria like ( [Employee ID] = 126 )?
Thanks for the help
Hank Reed

re: What kind of database is access?

Thanks for the pointer.

On Tue, 31 May 2005 20:25:17 +0200, Bob Alston
<tulsaalstonsNOSPAM@cox.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> A.P. Hofstede wrote:[color=green]
>> Could someone tell me where MS-Access (current and 97?) fit(s) on the
>> RDBMS - ORDBMS - ODBMS spectrum?
>> I gather it's relational, but how does it size up against/follow
>> SQL2/3/4 definitions and how does it compare to other database vendors?
>> Any articles that might be of interest? It's for an essay on database
>> models...
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Alex
>>[/color]
> Do some googling on "Jet database engine" and you may find your answers.
>
> Bob[/color]



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

re: What kind of database is access?

Thanks, that helped.

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 01:57:12 +0200, Trevor Best <nospam@besty.org.uk>
wrote:
[color=blue]
> A.P. Hofstede wrote:[color=green]
>> Could someone tell me where MS-Access (current and 97?) fit(s) on the
>> RDBMS - ORDBMS - ODBMS spectrum?
>> I gather it's relational, but how does it size up against/follow
>> SQL2/3/4 definitions and how does it compare to other database vendors?
>> Any articles that might be of interest? It's for an essay on database
>> models...[/color]
>
> Not this ol' chestnut.
>
> I'll forgo the Access isn't a database but Jet is malarkey as this is
> after all comp.databases.ms-access and not comp.databases.jet so:
> Set semantics_mode off
>
> If by RDBMS you mean a relational database management system that
> conforms to all 12 rules laid down by Edgar Codd, there isn't one. Only
> close approximations.
>
> Like many database vendors, you can create a relational database in it
> but it doesn't force you to. Some of the biggies like Oracle, DB/2, SQL
> Server, etc are considered by many to be RDBMSs but it is possible to
> create databases in them that are totally unrelational and break nearly
> every rule in the book. Much of the resulting database lies sqaurely on
> the shoulders of the DBA.
>
> Access (or Jet) differs from most databases labelled as RDBMSs by being
> a desktop product or file server based product so that the workstation
> does the selection/sorting instead of those tasks being performed on a
> server. With standard SQL methods of retrieval this can be quite slow
> depending on bandwidth/amount of data.
>
> It also has a not undocumented but seldom exploited mode of access
> called ISAM, this can make a bigger more expensive database look like a
> slouch, it's as far removed from SQL as a pork pie is from a vegan's
> diet but if you have a shed load of data (<2GB obviously) and want
> little bits of it faster than a speeding bullet then that may be for you.
>[/color]



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

re: What kind of database is access?

Hank wrote:[color=blue]
> Trevor,
> Very interesting what you have to say about ISAM files. I
> tired to run your code to do benchmarks and it worked. But how do you
> traverse a table with parameters? Your function does not seem to allow
> Queries...only Tables.
> Could you give us a code snippet where you traverse a table
> with a particular criteria like ( [Employee ID] = 126 )?
> Thanks for the help
> Hank Reed
>[/color]

Firstly, you cannot use it on queries, only tables, to traverse what you
want, since the recordset will get sorted by the index that you seek on
you'd do something like (assuming Index is called idxEmpID)

lngID = 126
with rst
.index = "idxEmpID"
.seek "=", lngID
if not .Nomatch then
do until .eof or .fields("Employee ID")<>lngID
' do something
.movenext
loop
end if
end with

I've not tested if you need the .nomatch check as I'm not sure if the
cursor would go to .EOF if not found.

--
[OO=00=OO]

re: What kind of database is access?

Trevor Best <nospam@besty.org.uk> wrote in
news:429eb647$0$2047$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
[color=blue]
> David W. Fenton wrote:[color=green]
>> Trevor Best <nospam@besty.org.uk> wrote in
>> news:429df67a$0$16465$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>ISAM = Indexed Sequential Access Method
>>>It's part of DAO.
>>>You can use it only on local tables or tables from a back end
>>>database if you've opened that database in code (i.e can't use on
>>>linked tables),[/color]
>>
>> Er, why, then, is the term ISAM used in the drivers that support
>> linking to a number of non-Jet data formats, many of which have
>> no indexing support?
>>
>> In other words, I think you're misidentifying what ISAM actually
>> *is*.[/color]
>
> True, they are called ISAM but you can only use the .Index and
> .Seek methods on native jet tables AFAIK.[/color]

Well, doesn't that mean, then, than those features have zilch to do
with ISAM?

I've never needed the speed of a .Seek, so I've never used it
myself.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

re: What kind of database is access?

David W. Fenton wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>>True, they are called ISAM but you can only use the .Index and
>>.Seek methods on native jet tables AFAIK.[/color]
>
>
> Well, doesn't that mean, then, than those features have zilch to do
> with ISAM?[/color]

Well ISAM is what Microsoft used to call MDB files before they were used
in Access. The *index* is sorted in order so is *sequential* and it's an
*access method*. Do you see a pattern emerging here? If MS don't call it
ISAM any more than that doesn't stop it from being ISAM, hell since when
have MS been good at naming things? They call a rowversion column in SQL
Server a "timestamp" and it has nothing to do with time.
[color=blue]
> I've never needed the speed of a .Seek, so I've never used it
> myself.[/color]

What do you want? A medal?

--
[OO=00=OO]

re: What kind of database is access?

Trevor Best <nospam@besty.org.uk> wrote in
news:42a00602$0$14088$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
[color=blue]
> David W. Fenton wrote:[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>True, they are called ISAM but you can only use the .Index and
>>>.Seek methods on native jet tables AFAIK.[/color]
>>
>>
>> Well, doesn't that mean, then, than those features have zilch to
>> do with ISAM?[/color]
>
> Well ISAM is what Microsoft used to call MDB files before they
> were used in Access. The *index* is sorted in order so is
> *sequential* and it's an *access method*. Do you see a pattern
> emerging here? If MS don't call it ISAM any more than that doesn't
> stop it from being ISAM, hell since when have MS been good at
> naming things? They call a rowversion column in SQL Server a
> "timestamp" and it has nothing to do with time.[/color]

It doesn't? Isn't the value derived from the time it's updated?

Seek with tabletype recordsets is a feature of DAO. I see no point
in dragging in the term ISAM, whatever historical appropriateness it
may have, because it is mostly used in Access for things that
*don't* provide indexed access to data, and, therefore, can't
provide the benefit you're attributing to ISAM.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I've never needed the speed of a .Seek, so I've never used it
>> myself.[/color]
>
> What do you want? A medal?[/color]

No, but I'm just pointing out that speed is not everything. In my
experience, the number of situations where you need the speed and
are able to use a tabletype recordset are quite few and far between.
In 10 years of Access programming, it's never happened to me in any
of the dozens of applications I've created.

I think that's important context, so people who don't have the
experience won't mistakenly go down this road trying to use it where
it can't really help your application.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

re: What kind of database is access?

David W. Fenton wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>>naming things? They call a rowversion column in SQL Server a
>>"timestamp" and it has nothing to do with time.[/color]
>
>
> It doesn't? Isn't the value derived from the time it's updated?[/color]

From BOL
timestamp
timestamp is a data type that exposes automatically generated binary
numbers, which are guaranteed to be unique within a database. timestamp
is used typically as a mechanism for version-stamping table rows. The
storage size is 8 bytes.

Remarks
The Transact-SQL timestamp data type is not the same as the timestamp
data type defined in the SQL-92 standard. The SQL-92 timestamp data type
is equivalent to the Transact-SQL datetime data type.

A future release of Microsoft® SQL Server™ may modify the behavior of
the Transact-SQL timestamp data type to align it with the behavior
defined in the standard. At that time, the current timestamp data type
will be replaced with a rowversion data type.




--
[OO=00=OO]

re: What kind of database is access?

David W. Fenton wrote:[color=blue]
> Seek with tabletype recordsets is a feature of DAO. I see no point
> in dragging in the term ISAM, whatever historical appropriateness it
> may have, because it is mostly used in Access for things that
> *don't* provide indexed access to data, and, therefore, can't
> provide the benefit you're attributing to ISAM.[/color]

From BC7 Help
<---
ISAM
The Microsoft BASIC Compiler includes a set of ISAM (Indexed Sequential
Access Method) features for writing data management programs. See
Chapter 10, "Database Programming with ISAM," in the BASIC Programmer's
Guide for more information about using ISAM.
The OPEN statement used with the ISAM keyword creates an ISAM database
and tables where they do not exist, and opens them.

See Also BEGINTRANS BOF CHECKPOINT CLOSE COMMITTRANS CREATEINDEX
DELETE DELETEINDEX DELETETABLE EOF FILEATTR GETINDEX$ INSERT LOF
MOVEdest OPEN RETRIEVE ROLLBACK SAVEPOINT SEEKoperand SETINDEX
TEXTCOMP TYPE UPDATE

(MOVEdest)
MOVEFIRST [#]filenumber%
MOVELAST [#]filenumber%
MOVENEXT [#]filenumber%
MOVEPREVIOUS [#]filenumber%

filenumber% The number of an open ISAM table.

(SEEKoperand)
SEEKGT [#]filenumber% ,keyvalue [,keyvalue]...
SEEKGE [#]filenumber% ,keyvalue [,keyvalue]...
SEEKEQ [#]filenumber% ,keyvalue [,keyvalue]...

filenumber% The number of an open ISAM table.
keyvalue An expression less than 256 characters long.

--->
Some of that looks familiar?

Definitions of ISAM
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/I/ISAM.html
http://search390.techtarget.com/sDef...214626,00.html
http://www.amr-usa.com/thindex.htm (Paragraph entitled "ISAM (Indexes)")

So DAO is updated, merged the SEEKoperand into one Seek and renamed
SETINDEX and made it a property instead of a command, added a few bits
for SQL support amongst other things and is OO orientated, but do you
still think the tables in the MDB file are anything other than ISAM?
[color=blue]
> No, but I'm just pointing out that speed is not everything. In my
> experience, the number of situations where you need the speed and
> are able to use a tabletype recordset are quite few and far between.
> In 10 years of Access programming, it's never happened to me in any
> of the dozens of applications I've created.[/color]

10 years ago was Access 2.0, not very quick with large data sets and as
I remember, .FindFirst and .FindNext were notoriously slow. Opening just
the bits you wanted in a dynaset improved things but wasn't a patch on
..Seek.
[color=blue]
> I think that's important context, so people who don't have the
> experience won't mistakenly go down this road trying to use it where
> it can't really help your application.[/color]

I've already pointed out the pitfall of using this method earlier in
this thread.

--
[OO=00=OO]

re: What kind of database is access?

Trevor Best <nospam@besty.org.uk> wrote in
news:42a0c35a$0$12370$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
[color=blue]
> David W. Fenton wrote:[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>naming things? They call a rowversion column in SQL Server a
>>>"timestamp" and it has nothing to do with time.[/color]
>>
>>
>> It doesn't? Isn't the value derived from the time it's updated?[/color]
>
> From BOL
> timestamp
> timestamp is a data type that exposes automatically generated
> binary numbers, which are guaranteed to be unique within a
> database. timestamp is used typically as a mechanism for
> version-stamping table rows. The storage size is 8 bytes.
>
> Remarks
> The Transact-SQL timestamp data type is not the same as the
> timestamp data type defined in the SQL-92 standard. The SQL-92
> timestamp data type is equivalent to the Transact-SQL datetime
> data type.
>
> A future release of Microsoft® SQL Server™ may modify the behavior
> of the Transact-SQL timestamp data type to align it with the
> behavior defined in the standard. At that time, the current
> timestamp data type will be replaced with a rowversion data type.[/color]

Access GUIDs don't include a time component that can be extracted
out of them, but time is used to derive the value.

I see nothing in what you've quoted that contradicts that.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

re: What kind of database is access?

David W. Fenton wrote:

[snip: T-SQL timestamp nothing to do with time]
[color=blue]
> Access GUIDs don't include a time component that can be extracted
> out of them, but time is used to derive the value.
>
> I see nothing in what you've quoted that contradicts that.[/color]

FFS

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...68fdc025bd1ed4

http://tinyurl.com/dklv3

--
[OO=00=OO]

re: What kind of database is access?

Trevor Best wrote:
[color=blue]
> True, they are called ISAM but you can only use the .Index and .Seek
> methods on native jet tables AFAIK.
>
> --
> [OO=00=OO][/color]

Today I had to reinstall Access 2.0 using the 31 Office 4.3 diskettes
on a machine that got whacked by a virus and had been running a POS app
for about nine years. With moderate trepidation I performed the
install using the ancient 1.44 Meg HD disks. The only file that could
not be read from the disks was MSQUERY.EXE (whew!). All the necessary
functions of the app worked correctly. I did a custom install and
noticed that installing the ISAM drivers was a separate checkbox
option. That seemed to indicate that ISAM in Access went beyond table
seeks, at least in A2. ISAM brings back distant memories of using JCL
on an IBM mainframe and of how nearly everyone failed to realize how
important SQL would become. The page indexing method used by Access
queries is not intuitive. I only realized recently that Access is
using something other than an ISAM style indexing method.

James A. Fortune

re: What kind of database is access?

<jimfortune@compumarc.com> schreef in bericht news:1118086553.142794.207050@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...[color=blue]
> Today I had to reinstall Access 2.0 using the 31 Office 4.3 diskettes
> on a machine that got whacked by a virus and had been running a POS app
> for about nine years. With moderate trepidation I performed the
> install using the ancient 1.44 Meg HD disks. The only file that could
> not be read from the disks was MSQUERY.EXE (whew!). All the necessary
> functions of the app worked correctly. I did a custom install and
> noticed that installing the ISAM drivers was a separate checkbox
> option. That seemed to indicate that ISAM in Access went beyond table
> seeks, at least in A2. ISAM brings back distant memories of using JCL
> on an IBM mainframe and of how nearly everyone failed to realize how
> important SQL would become. The page indexing method used by Access
> queries is not intuitive. I only realized recently that Access is
> using something other than an ISAM style indexing method.
>
> James A. Fortune[/color]

You *did* install the "Microsoft Access Version 2.0 Service Pack" also I hope?

Arno R

re: What kind of database is access?

Arno R wrote:
[color=blue]
> You *did* install the "Microsoft Access Version 2.0 Service Pack" also I hope?
>
> Arno R[/color]

No way. Let sleeping dogs lie. I did not want to change anything from
the way it was running before. I did not want to upgrade the code to a
later version of Access, although that would have been mostly changing
DB_OPEN_DYNASET's to dbOpenDynaset's and having them buy another
version of Access. Had the SP changed anything I would be there right
now fixing it on my own time. The app also printed checks using a dot
matrix printer while keeping a record of the cash flows in the
database. There was just too much potential for something to go wrong.
I'll wait until the install disks have lost enough magnetism to prevent
an install before doing any upgrades to that app.

James A. Fortune

re: What kind of database is access?

The sp is NOT a later version, it's a jet-upgrade to version 2.5.
Most important feature (From MS-info):
"The Microsoft Jet database engine version 2.5 can repair or recover information in some cases where it was not possible to do so before."
Also a lot of files concerning OLE are changed/upgraded. (And I guess) some othes fixes of the jet-engine.
Well if the app is running fine, it's allright with me, but I have always been very carefull about the jet-version my users use...
I even check the jet-version on startup of all my access 2.0 apps.

Arno R

<jimfortune@compumarc.com> schreef in bericht news:1118091252.524570.170890@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...[color=blue]
> Arno R wrote:
> [color=green]
>> You *did* install the "Microsoft Access Version 2.0 Service Pack" also I hope?
>>
>> Arno R[/color]
>
> No way. Let sleeping dogs lie. I did not want to change anything from
> the way it was running before. I did not want to upgrade the code to a
> later version of Access, although that would have been mostly changing
> DB_OPEN_DYNASET's to dbOpenDynaset's and having them buy another
> version of Access. Had the SP changed anything I would be there right
> now fixing it on my own time. The app also printed checks using a dot
> matrix printer while keeping a record of the cash flows in the
> database. There was just too much potential for something to go wrong.
> I'll wait until the install disks have lost enough magnetism to prevent
> an install before doing any upgrades to that app.
>
> James A. Fortune
>[/color]

re: What kind of database is access?

jimfortune@compumarc.com wrote in
news:1118086553.142794.207050@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:
[color=blue]
> Today I had to reinstall Access 2.0 using the 31 Office 4.3
> diskettes on a machine that got whacked by a virus and had been
> running a POS app for about nine years. With moderate trepidation
> I performed the install using the ancient 1.44 Meg HD disks. The
> only file that could not be read from the disks was MSQUERY.EXE
> (whew!). All the necessary functions of the app worked correctly.[/color]

I hope you remembered to apply the Jet 2.5 update -- Access 2.0 was
completely unusable without it, and could corrupt your data badly.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

re: What kind of database is access?

jimfortune@compumarc.com wrote in
news:1118091252.524570.170890@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:
[color=blue]
> Arno R wrote:
>[color=green]
>> You *did* install the "Microsoft Access Version 2.0 Service Pack"
>> also I hope?[/color]
>
> No way. Let sleeping dogs lie. I did not want to change anything
> from the way it was running before. I did not want to upgrade the
> code to a later version of Access, although that would have been
> mostly changing DB_OPEN_DYNASET's to dbOpenDynaset's and having
> them buy another version of Access. Had the SP changed anything I
> would be there right now fixing it on my own time. The app also
> printed checks using a dot matrix printer while keeping a record
> of the cash flows in the database. There was just too much
> potential for something to go wrong. I'll wait until the install
> disks have lost enough magnetism to prevent an install before
> doing any upgrades to that app.[/color]

Arno has already posted on this, but it was not an Access update --
it was a JET update. It was even an upgrade to a new version of Jet,
2.5.

And it's MANDATORY.

You can't safely run an Access 2.0 database without it in multi-user
mode at all -- it corrupts and crashes faster than you can imagine.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

re: What kind of database is access?

David W. Fenton wrote:[color=blue]
> jimfortune@compumarc.com wrote in
> news:1118091252.524570.170890@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:
>[color=green]
> > Arno R wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> >> You *did* install the "Microsoft Access Version 2.0 Service Pack"
> >> also I hope?[/color][/color]
>
> Arno has already posted on this, but it was not an Access update --
> it was a JET update. It was even an upgrade to a new version of Jet,
> 2.5.
>
> And it's MANDATORY.
>
> You can't safely run an Access 2.0 database without it in multi-user
> mode at all -- it corrupts and crashes faster than you can imagine.
>
> --
> David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
> dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc[/color]

When I said upgrade I meant to A97 or later. I realized that the SP
was not a newer version, but I didn't know that the SP was a JET update
only. Your advice is good but the POS runs from the main cash register
by a single user. It will never be multi-user no matter how many cash
registers are added. The POS has a backup system in place. I'm not
going to let the SP anywhere near it.

James A. Fortune

re: What kind of database is access?

"David W. Fenton" wrote
[color=blue]
> I've never needed the speed of
> a .Seek, so I've never used it
> myself.[/color]

I haven't done any comparison against seek but I have always found that
using a Query or SQL statement that selects a single record works very
nicely in DAO. (But I don't generally work with huge numbers of records in
Jet databases.) Jet seems pretty "smart" in optimizing when it retrieves
data.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP

re: What kind of database is access?

"Larry Linson" <bouncer@localhost.not> wrote in message
news:Slppe.10073$KQ2.7131@trnddc08...[color=blue]
> "David W. Fenton" wrote
>[color=green]
> > I've never needed the speed of
> > a .Seek, so I've never used it
> > myself.[/color]
>
> I haven't done any comparison against seek ...<snip>[/color]


Then why not do one? Perhaps then you can report back to the group with
something more useful than your usual somewhat cautious and limited posts.
After all - don't you need to do something to earn the MVP tag?

re: What kind of database is access?

jimfortune@compumarc.com wrote in
news:1118102931.289002.178970@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:
[color=blue]
> When I said upgrade I meant to A97 or later. I realized that the
> SP was not a newer version, but I didn't know that the SP was a
> JET update only. Your advice is good but the POS runs from the
> main cash register by a single user. It will never be multi-user
> no matter how many cash registers are added. The POS has a backup
> system in place. I'm not going to let the SP anywhere near it.[/color]

I know the problems were most severe in multi-user applications,
where you ended up with corruption almost immediately, but I still
wouldn't run any Access 2.0 installation without it.

I think you're being exremely unwise *not* applying the update. Your
customer should be very nervous.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

re: What kind of database is access?

"Bob" <bob@lalamoomoo.com> wrote in
news:d8597h$ctr$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com:
[color=blue]
> "Larry Linson" <bouncer@localhost.not> wrote in message
> news:Slppe.10073$KQ2.7131@trnddc08...[color=green]
>> "David W. Fenton" wrote
>>[color=darkred]
>> > I've never needed the speed of
>> > a .Seek, so I've never used it
>> > myself.[/color]
>>
>> I haven't done any comparison against seek ...<snip>[/color]
>
> Then why not do one? Perhaps then you can report back to the
> group with something more useful than your usual somewhat cautious
> and limited posts. After all - don't you need to do something to
> earn the MVP tag?[/color]

Why don't *you* do the comparisons?

That would then add to your long, long list of constructive
contributions to this newsgroup (which now stands at ZERO, out of a
total of ONE POST, ever).

Is that you, Don?

<plonk>

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc