Disappearing forms!

This is concerning Access 2000 and some pretty incomprehensible behavior

OK, I hope someone can explain this to me. After spending some 30 hours
developing forms and modules for an Access database (with a lot of help form
the folks here), suddenly Access decides to delete all of the forms and
modules.

I was working on a form to open another form to a specific record. I had just
finished the form for a trial and closed it, the typical dialog obx came up
asking if I wanted to save the form, I said yes, it opend the dialog box
asking for a name and I entered a name (frmInMov), hit the ok button and
suddenly all the forms listed in Database view window disappeard. Just gone.
Also gone were all the modules.

The tables are fine as are the queries and reports I've written to date, but
all forms are simply not there. No amount of messing with it seems to turn
anything up.

Any ideas at all or do I just have to start over?

Thanks for any help,

A very depressed Randy

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re: Disappearing forms!

Sounds to me as if this was an _object lesson_ in the advisability of making
regular, and frequent, backups. When I am developing a database, I tend to
save a backup no less than every couple of hours, and often every couple of
"significant changes".

If you haven't done any more to that database, make a copy and save the
original. In the end, if your time is worth anything, it may be worth your
while to send that to Peter Miller at http://www.pksolutions.com, who has an
excellent reputation for salvaging data from corrupted Access databases. In
the meanwhile, make another copy of the copy and try to use Access' compact
and repair on it.

But before you do that... check the scroll bar at the bottom of the Forms
tab of the database window... it is possible that the forms aren't _gone_
but only shifted so that you don't see them any more.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP


Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP

<stunter2001@charter.net> wrote in message
news:brvhih$phf$1@news.netmar.com...[color=blue]
>
> This is concerning Access 2000 and some pretty incomprehensible behavior
>
> OK, I hope someone can explain this to me. After spending some 30 hours
> developing forms and modules for an Access database (with a lot of help[/color]
form[color=blue]
> the folks here), suddenly Access decides to delete all of the forms and
> modules.
>
> I was working on a form to open another form to a specific record. I had[/color]
just[color=blue]
> finished the form for a trial and closed it, the typical dialog obx came[/color]
up[color=blue]
> asking if I wanted to save the form, I said yes, it opend the dialog box
> asking for a name and I entered a name (frmInMov), hit the ok button and
> suddenly all the forms listed in Database view window disappeard. Just[/color]
gone.[color=blue]
> Also gone were all the modules.
>
> The tables are fine as are the queries and reports I've written to date,[/color]
but[color=blue]
> all forms are simply not there. No amount of messing with it seems to turn
> anything up.
>
> Any ideas at all or do I just have to start over?
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> A very depressed Randy
>
> ----- Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the[/color]
eb -----[color=blue]
> http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+[/color]
groups[color=blue]
> NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam. If this or other posts
> made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email[/color]
abuse@newsone.net

re: Disappearing forms!

What if you create a new database and try to import the objects in
this one? What if you go to Tools, Options, Show Hidden Objects =
YES. Can you see them?

re: Disappearing forms!

pietlinden@hotmail.com (Pieter Linden) wrote in
news:bf31e41b.0312192034.222e7ddb@posting.google.c om:
[color=blue]
> What if you create a new database and try to import the objects in
> this one? What if you go to Tools, Options, Show Hidden Objects =
> YES. Can you see them?
>[/color]

I did keep a copy of the database and really only lost about 4 hours work.
But I was pretty frustrated and I suspect had become a bit too comfortable.
Access had never done this to me before. Sigh.. So, I managed to copy the
tables from the old database (I had spent a LOT of time importing the data
from a elemental spreadsheet) and got that into the backup copy then spent
most of the rest of the day recreating the forms. At least it was easier
this time since I knew what to do and already had the process down. I'm
still quite new to this. And I made 2 backups that I recopied about every
half hour. I'll try not to get caught out like that again.

Just a note. The repair function didn't do anything and it was pretty clear
something was corrupted. It also wouldn't let me make new forms in that
database. Kept complaining that it couldn't find something (tables,
dependent queries, whatever).

OK, so lesson learned. Thanks for the input.

Backup Maniac Randy

re: Disappearing forms!

nospam_joe@nomail.net (Randy Powell) wrote in
<Xns9456D697F25CFstunter2001nowherene@216.168.3.44 >:
[color=blue]
>pietlinden@hotmail.com (Pieter Linden) wrote in
>news:bf31e41b.0312192034.222e7ddb@posting.google. com:
>[color=green]
>> What if you create a new database and try to import the objects
>> in this one? What if you go to Tools, Options, Show Hidden
>> Objects = YES. Can you see them?
>>[/color]
>
>I did keep a copy of the database and really only lost about 4
>hours work. But I was pretty frustrated and I suspect had become a
>bit too comfortable. Access had never done this to me before.
>Sigh.. So, I managed to copy the tables from the old database (I
>had spent a LOT of time importing the data from a elemental
>spreadsheet) and got that into the backup copy then spent most of
>the rest of the day recreating the forms. At least it was easier
>this time since I knew what to do and already had the process
>down. I'm still quite new to this. And I made 2 backups that I
>recopied about every half hour. I'll try not to get caught out
>like that again.[/color]

Er, even during development it's a good idea to use a split
architecture, with tables in one MDB and forms, reports, etc., in
another MDB with links to the MDB where the data tables are. You
would have had one less hassle if you'd been doing that already.
[color=blue]
>Just a note. The repair function didn't do anything and it was
>pretty clear something was corrupted. It also wouldn't let me make
>new forms in that database. Kept complaining that it couldn't find
>something (tables, dependent queries, whatever).
>
>OK, so lesson learned. Thanks for the input.
>
>Backup Maniac Randy[/color]

Well, also, how often do you compile your database? Do you have
compile on demand turned off? Have you ever decompiled? How often
to you compact?

All of these things are part of the regular development process and
insure that your application does not develop irretrievable
corruption of one or more objects.

Keep in mind that from A2K on, your whole project is stored in a
single record of the system table (this is why two people can't
edit your project at the same time), so corruption of one object
can quite easily leak over to many other objects.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

re: Disappearing forms!

[snip]
--------------------[color=blue]
>
> Well, also, how often do you compile your database? Do you have
> compile on demand turned off? Have you ever decompiled? How often
> to you compact?
>
> All of these things are part of the regular development process and
> insure that your application does not develop irretrievable
> corruption of one or more objects.
>
> Keep in mind that from A2K on, your whole project is stored in a
> single record of the system table (this is why two people can't
> edit your project at the same time), so corruption of one object
> can quite easily leak over to many other objects.
>[/color]


Keep in mine that a year ago I didn't even know what Access was. So I'm
pretty much a newbie. I haven't compiled it at all. I thought you did that
when you were done. Not even sure how to decompile it. I hadn't realized
you could put the tables in one .mdb file and the forms, reports, etc in
another. I'll try messing with that a bit.

Seems the more I learn in this, the more I realize I don't know much.

Randy

re: Disappearing forms!

/DECOMPILE is a command-line parameter, "officially undocumented" but
mentioned in some articles in the Knowledge Base (a great source of Access
help, BTW) at http://support.microsoft.com.

Create a separate shortcut on your desktop, right-click, and edit the
command line to include your database name and /DECOMPILE. In some
particular situations, of which yours might be one, decompiling can save you
a lot of trouble; on the other hand, it shouldn't be used willy-nilly
because in certain other situations, it could make some problems worse or
cause problems.

In the module window, I go into the Tools | Options and uncheck "Auto Syntax
Check" because it is such a pain to me to be interrupted before I finish
typing in a line of code. Having done that, before I save a change, I go to
Debug on the menu, and choose "Compile" -- that gives me a check that I
haven't created compilation errors (and it also compiles the modules, so
they don't have to be compiled on first use, thus slowing me down in
execution).

But, it is better to overemphasize saving backup copies during development
than to underemphasize it -- you don't have to keep every copy you save (but
with the miniscule price and humungous size of hard drives, these days, it
is feasible to do so if you have a "newish" machine).

Best of luck with your project.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP


"Randy Powell" <nospam_joe@nomail.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9457ED38B7931stunter2001nowherene@216.168. 3.44...[color=blue]
> [snip]
> --------------------[color=green]
> >
> > Well, also, how often do you compile your database? Do you have
> > compile on demand turned off? Have you ever decompiled? How often
> > to you compact?
> >
> > All of these things are part of the regular development process and
> > insure that your application does not develop irretrievable
> > corruption of one or more objects.
> >
> > Keep in mind that from A2K on, your whole project is stored in a
> > single record of the system table (this is why two people can't
> > edit your project at the same time), so corruption of one object
> > can quite easily leak over to many other objects.
> >[/color]
>
>
> Keep in mine that a year ago I didn't even know what Access was. So I'm
> pretty much a newbie. I haven't compiled it at all. I thought you did that
> when you were done. Not even sure how to decompile it. I hadn't realized
> you could put the tables in one .mdb file and the forms, reports, etc in
> another. I'll try messing with that a bit.
>
> Seems the more I learn in this, the more I realize I don't know much.
>
> Randy[/color]

re: Disappearing forms!

> Seems the more I learn in this, the more I realize I don't know much.

Oh, and then you open a copy of the Developer Handbook, and you really
realize how little you know... but learning is like that.

re: Disappearing forms!

pietlinden@hotmail.com (Pieter Linden) wrote in
news:bf31e41b.0312211830.448b9cc@posting.google.co m:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Seems the more I learn in this, the more I realize I don't know much.[/color]
>
> Oh, and then you open a copy of the Developer Handbook, and you really
> realize how little you know... but learning is like that.
>[/color]

Thanks for the help. I sorta got tossed into this a year or so ago and have
been learning as fast as I can.

Randy

re: Disappearing forms!

bouncer@localhost.not (Larry Linson) wrote in
<EGrFb.11199$GO2.5660@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>:
[color=blue]
>Create a separate shortcut on your desktop, right-click, and edit
>the command line to include your database name and /DECOMPILE.[/color]

Or, *don't* put in a database name, and then you can use it to
decompile *any* MDB, simply by choosing one from the FILE OPEN
dialog when Access opens.
[color=blue]
> . . . In
>some particular situations, of which yours might be one,
>decompiling can save you a lot of trouble; on the other hand, it
>shouldn't be used willy-nilly because in certain other situations,
>it could make some problems worse or cause problems.[/color]

It is more useful in A97, in my experience, than in A2K and beyond.
[color=blue]
>In the module window, I go into the Tools | Options and uncheck
>"Auto Syntax Check" because it is such a pain to me to be
>interrupted before I finish typing in a line of code. Having done
>that, before I save a change, I go to Debug on the menu, and
>choose "Compile" -- that gives me a check that I haven't created
>compilation errors (and it also compiles the modules, so they
>don't have to be compiled on first use, thus slowing me down in
>execution).[/color]

Also, in the VB window Options dialog, go to the GENERAL tab and
uncheck COMPILE ON DEMAND. If you want to know why, read this
article:

The real deal on the /Decompile switch
http://trigeminal.com/usenet/usenet004.asp
[color=blue]
>But, it is better to overemphasize saving backup copies during
>development than to underemphasize it -- you don't have to keep
>every copy you save (but with the miniscule price and humungous
>size of hard drives, these days, it is feasible to do so if you
>have a "newish" machine).[/color]

I don't make backups very often and I don't lose projects.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

re: Disappearing forms!

In article <Xns9458DAC77EA10stunter2001nowherene@216.168.3.44 >, Randy Powell
<nospam_joe@nomail.net> writes:[color=blue]
>pietlinden@hotmail.com (Pieter Linden) wrote in
>news:bf31e41b.0312211830.448b9cc@posting.google.c om:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Seems the more I learn in this, the more I realize I don't know much.[/color]
>>
>> Oh, and then you open a copy of the Developer Handbook, and you really
>> realize how little you know... but learning is like that.
>>[/color]
>
>Thanks for the help. I sorta got tossed into this a year or so ago and have
>been learning as fast as I can.
>
>Randy[/color]


Pieter, Larry and Daved,

Following up on the comment about putting the tables in one database (.mdb)and
the database structure (form, queries and reports, etc.) in another.

It seems this would be very useful if you had more than one user. I'm
currently working on a database for a little kids program over at our main
office. This program serves a LOT of small children. They have 3 people doing
clinical and case management work for the program, all of which do intakes
and such.

So, the question: I'd like to be able to keep the tables in one location and
have a front end form those tables on all 3 people's computers In such a way
that if person one does an intake, the central table is updated. I imagine
this is the main purpose of having one set of tables and multiple "front
ends".

yes?

So, how do you get the front end to write data to the central set of tables
over the network? I can see some functions in the Macros that would seem to
do this such as TransferDatabase.

If someone could point me to the appropriate Knowledge Base article or
whatever, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

Randy

----- Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web -----
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NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam. If this or other posts
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re: Disappearing forms!

<nospam_stunter2001@charter.net> wrote in message
news:bs7huu$vmp$1@news.netmar.com...[color=blue]
> In article <Xns9458DAC77EA10stunter2001nowherene@216.168.3.44 >, Randy Powell
> <nospam_joe@nomail.net> writes:[color=green]
> >pietlinden@hotmail.com (Pieter Linden) wrote in
> >news:bf31e41b.0312211830.448b9cc@posting.google.c om:
> >[color=darkred]
> >>> Seems the more I learn in this, the more I realize I don't know much.
> >>
> >> Oh, and then you open a copy of the Developer Handbook, and you really
> >> realize how little you know... but learning is like that.
> >>[/color]
> >
> >Thanks for the help. I sorta got tossed into this a year or so ago and have
> >been learning as fast as I can.
> >
> >Randy[/color]
>
>
> Pieter, Larry and Daved,
>
> Following up on the comment about putting the tables in one database (.mdb)and
> the database structure (form, queries and reports, etc.) in another.
>
> It seems this would be very useful if you had more than one user. I'm
> currently working on a database for a little kids program over at our main
> office. This program serves a LOT of small children. They have 3 people doing
> clinical and case management work for the program, all of which do intakes
> and such.
>
> So, the question: I'd like to be able to keep the tables in one location and
> have a front end form those tables on all 3 people's computers In such a way
> that if person one does an intake, the central table is updated. I imagine
> this is the main purpose of having one set of tables and multiple "front
> ends".
>
> yes?
>
> So, how do you get the front end to write data to the central set of tables
> over the network? I can see some functions in the Macros that would seem to
> do this such as TransferDatabase.
>
> If someone could point me to the appropriate Knowledge Base article or
> whatever, I'd appreciate it.[/color]

You import your tables from the current file into a new file. Then delete the
tables in the current file and then use File - Get External Data - Link Tables
to create links to the tables in the new file. The app works the same as before
except the tables are now linked instead of local.


--
I don't check the Email account attached
to this message. Send instead to...
RBrandt at Hunter dot com

re: Disappearing forms!

David,

Good info on compile. I'm confused though, about why not to use
"compile on demand". I read the article... but it did not seem to
mention "compile on demand". What am I failing to understand?

Thanks,
-Tom
[color=blue]
> Also, in the VB window Options dialog, go to the GENERAL tab and
> uncheck COMPILE ON DEMAND. If you want to know why, read this
> article:
>
> The real deal on the /Decompile switch
> http://trigeminal.com/usenet/usenet004.asp
>[/color]

re: Disappearing forms!

David,

Whoops. Now I've read your posting in the thread "Why does Compile
On Demand increase chance of corruption?" and I get the idea.

-td

re: Disappearing forms!

tom@nuws.com (tom) wrote in
<c17f6324.0312222222.112f7a36@posting.google.com >:
[color=blue]
> Good info on compile. I'm confused though, about why not to use
>"compile on demand". I read the article... but it did not seem to
>mention "compile on demand". What am I failing to understand?[/color]

Compile on demand means that you can't really control *when* the
compile happens or *what* gets compiled. If you turn it off,
compile happens only when you tell it to (within certain
limitations, of course).

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc