http://www.iboi.nl/dev/

Tested with:
Safari 1.2.2 (Mac)
Firefox 0.8 (Mac)
IE 5.2.3 (Mac)
Camino 0.8 (Mac)
IE 6 (Windows)
Opera 7.5 (Mac)

The latter is the only one who displays the page differently.
All <div>'s are placed 8px down. Which is best seen by looking at the
background image; the other images should 'fit'.

It might be a bit risky to make a layout that is so dependent on pixel
precise positioning, but I though I avoided using code that would be
problematic.

I didn't have the guts to try it out yet in IE5/5.5/Win though :-)

--
marco

mbakker@mac.kom.invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:
[color=blue]
>http://www.iboi.nl/dev/
>
>Tested with:
>Safari 1.2.2 (Mac)
>Firefox 0.8 (Mac)
>IE 5.2.3 (Mac)
>Camino 0.8 (Mac)
>IE 6 (Windows)
>Opera 7.5 (Mac)
>
>The latter is the only one who displays the page differently.
>All <div>'s are placed 8px down. Which is best seen by looking at the
>background image; the other images should 'fit'.[/color]

Opera (correctly) uses default padding on the body element, other UAs
commonly use margin. (add padding:0 to your body style).

--
Spartanicus

mbakker@mac.kom.invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:
[color=blue]
>http://www.iboi.nl/dev/
>
>Tested with:
>Safari 1.2.2 (Mac)
>Firefox 0.8 (Mac)
>IE 5.2.3 (Mac)
>Camino 0.8 (Mac)
>IE 6 (Windows)
>Opera 7.5 (Mac)
>
>The latter is the only one who displays the page differently.
>All <div>'s are placed 8px down. Which is best seen by looking at the
>background image; the other images should 'fit'.[/color]

You've set body {margin: 0 auto;}
Opera doesn't have default margin on body, it has default padding.
So add padding: 0; and all will be well.
[color=blue]
>It might be a bit risky to make a layout that is so dependent on pixel
>precise positioning, but I though I avoided using code that would be
>problematic.[/color]

Biggest problems I can see are:
1.the complete lack of useful alt attributes. With images turned off
the page is useless.
2. Text size set in pixels, which means that IE users can't easily
resize it. And considering that you've set the text size to a tiny
size at least some of them are going to need to resize it before they
can read anything.
[color=blue]
>I didn't have the guts to try it out yet in IE5/5.5/Win though :-)[/color]

The content is left aligned, because Win IE5.x doesn't support
margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net> <http://steve.pugh.net/>

Steve Pugh wrote:
[color=blue]
> mbakker@mac.kom.invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:
>[color=green]
>>http://www.iboi.nl/dev/
>>[/color]
> Biggest problems I can see are:
> 1.the complete lack of useful alt attributes. With images turned off
> the page is useless.
> 2. Text size set in pixels, which means that IE users can't easily
> resize it. And considering that you've set the text size to a tiny
> size at least some of them are going to need to resize it before they
> can read anything.[/color]

3. Slips off left side in Gecko if window is narrower than
750px.

--
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

Spartanicus <me@privacy.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> mbakker@mac.kom.invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:
>[color=green]
> >http://www.iboi.nl/dev/
> >
> >Tested with:
> >Safari 1.2.2 (Mac)
> >Firefox 0.8 (Mac)
> >IE 5.2.3 (Mac)
> >Camino 0.8 (Mac)
> >IE 6 (Windows)
> >Opera 7.5 (Mac)
> >
> >The latter is the only one who displays the page differently.
> >All <div>'s are placed 8px down. Which is best seen by looking at the
> >background image; the other images should 'fit'.[/color]
>
> Opera (correctly) uses default padding on the body element, other UAs
> commonly use margin. (add padding:0 to your body style).[/color]

Thanks! Great.

--
marco

Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> mbakker@mac.kom.invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:
>[color=green]
> >http://www.iboi.nl/dev/
> >
> >Tested with:
> >Safari 1.2.2 (Mac)
> >Firefox 0.8 (Mac)
> >IE 5.2.3 (Mac)
> >Camino 0.8 (Mac)
> >IE 6 (Windows)
> >Opera 7.5 (Mac)
> >
> >The latter is the only one who displays the page differently.
> >All <div>'s are placed 8px down. Which is best seen by looking at the
> >background image; the other images should 'fit'.[/color]
>
> You've set body {margin: 0 auto;}
> Opera doesn't have default margin on body, it has default padding.
> So add padding: 0; and all will be well.
>[color=green]
> >It might be a bit risky to make a layout that is so dependent on pixel
> >precise positioning, but I though I avoided using code that would be
> >problematic.[/color]
>
> Biggest problems I can see are:
> 1.the complete lack of useful alt attributes. With images turned off
> the page is useless.[/color]

Yes, the 'alt' text was on the to do list. I test in Lynx always, so
that I would have noticed at some stage.
[color=blue]
> 2. Text size set in pixels, which means that IE users can't easily
> resize it. And considering that you've set the text size to a tiny
> size at least some of them are going to need to resize it before they
> can read anything.[/color]

0.8em is what I think I will be using.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> >I didn't have the guts to try it out yet in IE5/5.5/Win though :-)[/color]
>
> The content is left aligned, because Win IE5.x doesn't support
> margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;[/color]

That will break the whole layout. Back to the drawing board I'm afraid.
Absolute positioning, no auto centering, yikes.

Thanks Steve.


--
marco

Marco Bakker wrote:
[color=blue]
> Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>mbakker@mac.kom.invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>http://www.iboi.nl/dev/
>>>
>>>I didn't have the guts to try it out yet in IE5/5.5/Win though :-)[/color]
>>
>>The content is left aligned, because Win IE5.x doesn't support
>>margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;[/color]
>
> That will break the whole layout. Back to the drawing board I'm afraid.
> Absolute positioning, no auto centering, yikes.[/color]

Not if you set text-align:center to the body.
That will center align the page in IE5, while the auto
margins do it for the rest of the browsers.

--
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Steve Pugh wrote:
>[color=green]
> > mbakker@mac.kom.invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> >>http://www.iboi.nl/dev/
> >>[/color]
> > Biggest problems I can see are:
> > 1.the complete lack of useful alt attributes. With images turned off
> > the page is useless.
> > 2. Text size set in pixels, which means that IE users can't easily
> > resize it. And considering that you've set the text size to a tiny
> > size at least some of them are going to need to resize it before they
> > can read anything.[/color]
>
> 3. Slips off left side in Gecko if window is narrower than
> 750px.[/color]

You mean the background starting to 'travel'? That's fine. I tested it
on a 800x600 laptop and it was fine. I have to draw a line somewhere
(with this design) and that is at 800x600.

--
marco

Marco Bakker wrote:
[color=blue]
> Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl> wrote:[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>
>>>>http://www.iboi.nl/dev/
>>>[/color]
>>3. Slips off left side in Gecko if window is narrower than
>>750px.[/color]
>
> You mean the background starting to 'travel'? That's fine. I tested it
> on a 800x600 laptop and it was fine. I have to draw a line somewhere
> (with this design) and that is at 800x600.[/color]

No, the background isn't important.
The content slips off screen to the left, where the
scrollbar can't get to it.
Easy to avoid by setting a border on the whole page. Set the
border in the same color as the background and noone will
notice.
Another method is setting a min-width to the page, as the
problem only occurs in Gecko browsers, it's not a problem
that IE doesn't read that.

--
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

mbakker@mac.kom.invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:[color=blue]
>Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net> wrote:[color=green]
>> mbakker@mac.kom.invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> >http://www.iboi.nl/dev/[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
>> 2. Text size set in pixels, which means that IE users can't easily
>> resize it. And considering that you've set the text size to a tiny
>> size at least some of them are going to need to resize it before they
>> can read anything.[/color]
>
>0.8em is what I think I will be using.[/color]

Well, at least that's only 20% smaller than the browser default,
rather than the 38% smaller that you have at the moment (assuming
factory settings, could be more or less for individual users). So a
step in the right direction.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>> >I didn't have the guts to try it out yet in IE5/5.5/Win though :-)[/color]
>>
>> The content is left aligned, because Win IE5.x doesn't support
>> margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;[/color]
>
>That will break the whole layout. Back to the drawing board I'm afraid.[/color]

Not really. The page is still alid out as you specified, just on the
left rather than in the middle.
[color=blue]
>Absolute positioning, no auto centering, yikes.[/color]

There's no need to use absolute positioning here. Just set text-align:
center; on body (and text-align: left on all the children) and IE5.x
will (incorrently) center it.

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net> <http://steve.pugh.net/>

Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> mbakker@mac.kom.invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:[color=green]
> >Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net> wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> mbakker@mac.kom.invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:
> >>
> >> >http://www.iboi.nl/dev/[/color]
> >[color=darkred]
> >> 2. Text size set in pixels, which means that IE users can't easily
> >> resize it. And considering that you've set the text size to a tiny
> >> size at least some of them are going to need to resize it before they
> >> can read anything.[/color]
> >
> >0.8em is what I think I will be using.[/color]
>
> Well, at least that's only 20% smaller than the browser default,
> rather than the 38% smaller that you have at the moment (assuming
> factory settings, could be more or less for individual users). So a
> step in the right direction.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> >I didn't have the guts to try it out yet in IE5/5.5/Win though :-)
> >>
> >> The content is left aligned, because Win IE5.x doesn't support
> >> margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;[/color]
> >
> >That will break the whole layout. Back to the drawing board I'm afraid.[/color]
>
> Not really. The page is still alid out as you specified, just on the
> left rather than in the middle.
>[color=green]
> >Absolute positioning, no auto centering, yikes.[/color]
>
> There's no need to use absolute positioning here. Just set text-align:
> center; on body (and text-align: left on all the children) and IE5.x
> will (incorrently) center it.
>
> Steve[/color]

Els and Steve your input has been great.

I'll put the site back up later. When I am sure I get the job to build
the original designer's PDF in HTML, which I did now with your help :-)

--
marco

While sitting in a puddle Els scribbled in the mud:
[color=blue]
> No, the background isn't important.
> The content slips off screen to the left, where the
> scrollbar can't get to it.
> Easy to avoid by setting a border on the whole page. Set the
> border in the same color as the background and noone will
> notice.
> Another method is setting a min-width to the page, as the
> problem only occurs in Gecko browsers, it's not a problem
> that IE doesn't read that.[/color]

I thought for a minute that you had forgotten that which your master had
taught you. Your second paragraph proved you to be a worthy student. :o)

--
Duende
I'll never do that again.

Duende wrote:[color=blue]
> While sitting in a puddle Els scribbled in the mud:
>[color=green]
>>No, the background isn't important.
>>The content slips off screen to the left, where the
>>scrollbar can't get to it.
>>Easy to avoid by setting a border on the whole page. Set the
>>border in the same color as the background and noone will
>>notice.
>>Another method is setting a min-width to the page, as the
>>problem only occurs in Gecko browsers, it's not a problem
>>that IE doesn't read that.[/color]
>
> I thought for a minute that you had forgotten that which your master had
> taught you. Your second paragraph proved you to be a worthy student. :o)[/color]

Thanks :-D

--
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

What is a min-width? How does one set it?

On Sun, 30 May 2004 00:28:50 +0200, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Duende wrote:[color=green]
>> While sitting in a puddle Els scribbled in the mud:
>>[/color][/color]
<snip>[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Another method is setting a min-width to the page, as the problem only
>>> occurs in Gecko browsers, it's not a problem that IE doesn't read that.[/color]
>> I thought for a minute that you had forgotten that which your master
>> had taught you. Your second paragraph proved you to be a worthy
>> student. :o)[/color][/color]



--
http://www.his.com/~merkin

Maury Merkin wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Sun, 30 May 2004 00:28:50 +0200, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Duende wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> While sitting in a puddle Els scribbled in the mud:
>>>[/color][/color]
> <snip>
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> Another method is setting a min-width to the page, as the problem
>>>> only occurs in Gecko browsers, it's not a problem that IE doesn't
>>>> read that.
>>>
>>> I thought for a minute that you had forgotten that which your
>>> master had taught you. Your second paragraph proved you to be a
>>> worthy student. :o)[/color][/color]
>
> What is a min-width? How does one set it?[/color]

#container{
min-width:500px;
}

(if the div containing the page has id="container")

--
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -