Hi,

I am wondering if there are any good resources for how to tweak a design
based on CSS-positioning so that it will work in IE? I believe position
: fixed is still a bit of a problem in IE, but are there any ways around
the problem to get it to behave a bit more like it does in Netscape?

The layout I am working with is this one (and it works like a charm in
Netscape 7.x):

HTML: http://www.westeros.org/Test/BoD-New/index2.html

CSS: http://www.westeros.org/Test/BoD-New/BoD2.css

If anyone has any thoughts on how to get it to work the same in IE
without resorting to actual frames or tables, I'd love to see them. :)

Linda

Linda Antonsson wrote:[color=blue]
>
> I am wondering if there are any good resources for how to tweak a design
> based on CSS-positioning so that it will work in IE? I believe position
> : fixed is still a bit of a problem in IE,[/color]

And by "bit of a problem in IE," you mean "IE doesn't support it, and
chokes when it encounters it." Right?
[color=blue]
> but are there any ways around
> the problem to get it to behave a bit more like it does in Netscape?[/color]

There is no way to get IE to support something that it doesn't
support. If IE just ignored it, you'd be fine, but IE screws other
things up (e.g., hiding content), so hide the position: fixed rule.

< http://w3development.de/css/hide_css_from_browsers/ >

--
Brian
follow the directions in my address to email me

Brian wrote:
[color=blue]
> Linda Antonsson wrote:
>
>
> And by "bit of a problem in IE," you mean "IE doesn't support it, and
> chokes when it encounters it." Right?[/color]

Well, more or less, yeah. I don't use IE myself, but that fits the
description I got from a friend. Some of the elements do seem to stay
put where they should be, but others end up in all sorts of strange places.
[color=blue]
> There is no way to get IE to support something that it doesn't support.
> If IE just ignored it, you'd be fine, but IE screws other things up
> (e.g., hiding content), so hide the position: fixed rule.
>
> < http://w3development.de/css/hide_css_from_browsers/ >[/color]

Well, just hiding it probably won't work too well, since I imagine it
means the page won't display in any way as intended in IE, so what I am
looking for is a way (if there is one) to accomplish a similar result
using the things that IE does support. I can handle 'basic' CSS okay,
but when it comes to work-arounds for things that aren't fully (or at
all) supported or things that behave in an unexpected way, I am bit lost. :)

Linda

Linda Antonsson wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Some of the elements do seem to stay put where they should be, but
> others end up in all sorts of strange places.[/color]

Right. You must hide position: fixed from MSIE/Win.
[color=blue]
> Well, just hiding it probably won't work too well, since I imagine
> it means the page won't display in any way as intended in IE,[/color]

Not every browser will render your page in exactly the same way.
That's a fact of life. The sooner you come to terms with that, the
better off you'll be.
[color=blue]
> so what I am looking for is a way (if there is one) to accomplish a
> similar result using the things that IE does support. I can handle
> 'basic' CSS okay, but when it comes to work-arounds for things that
> aren't fully (or at all) supported or things that behave in an
> unexpected way, I am bit lost. :)[/color]

Given: IE/Win breaks when faced with position: fixed. You asked, how
can I achieve this anyways. Answer: IE does not support position:
fixed. That's not the answer you want, but there isn't much else I
can tell you. There is not another value for the position property
called 'fixed-that-works-in-MSIE-WIN'

Ask yourself what is acceptable in MSIE/Win, given that position:
fixed is out of the question. Perhaps position: absolute would work?

--
Brian
follow the directions in my address to email me

Brian wrote:

[color=blue]
>
> Not every browser will render your page in exactly the same way.
> That's a fact of life. The sooner you come to terms with that, the
> better off you'll be.[/color]

Obviously, that's unavoidable. But when I think about differences
between browsers (excluding older browsers such as Netscape 4.x) in how
they render pages, I tend to think about things like them not
interpreting margins, padding or size-specifications quite the same, and
those differences can usually be ignored easily enough.

However, the fact that IE doesn't handle position : fixed is something I
consider as a bit more than a difference in rendering since using
position : absolute instead of position : fixed turns it into an
entirely layout.
[color=blue]
> Given: IE/Win breaks when faced with position: fixed. You asked, how
> can I achieve this anyways. Answer: IE does not support position:
> fixed. That's not the answer you want, but there isn't much else I
> can tell you. There is not another value for the position property
> called 'fixed-that-works-in-MSIE-WIN'[/color]

Well, obviously not. :) But there might have existed another way (as in,
outside of using position) of accomplishing a similar result. If nothing
such exists, fine, but since I wasn't sure I figured asking might be a
good idea. I also wasn't sure whether IE entirely ignored position :
fixed or just interpreted it shoddily.
[color=blue]
>
> Ask yourself what is acceptable in MSIE/Win, given that position:
> fixed is out of the question. Perhaps position: absolute would work?
>[/color]

Unfortunately not, since the basis for the design was to emulate a
framed page.

Linda

Linda Antonsson <linda@mbox321.tele2.se> exclaimed in <bl9rnn$9qhcd$1@id-196096.news.uni-berlin.de>:
[color=blue]
> such exists, fine, but since I wasn't sure I figured asking might be a
> good idea. I also wasn't sure whether IE entirely ignored position :
> fixed or just interpreted it shoddily.[/color]

Asking is always a good idea. Adding to what Brian has allready told you,
IE/Windows interprets "positions: fixed;" in a distinctly spooky fashion,
sadly.


[color=blue][color=green]
>> Ask yourself what is acceptable in MSIE/Win, given that position:
>> fixed is out of the question. Perhaps position: absolute would work?
>>[/color]
>
> Unfortunately not, since the basis for the design was to emulate a
> framed page.[/color]

There exist hacks - AFAIK one convoluted CSS one, and one amazingly
weird Javascript one. You can find references to both on

http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/

Handle with care, of course.

--
- Tina Holmboe Greytower Technologies
tina@greytower.net http://www.greytower.net/
[+46] 0708 557 905

Tina Holmboe wrote:
[color=blue]
> Asking is always a good idea. Adding to what Brian has allready told you,
> IE/Windows interprets "positions: fixed;" in a distinctly spooky fashion,
> sadly.[/color]

Spooky is definitely a good word for it.
[color=blue]
>
> There exist hacks - AFAIK one convoluted CSS one, and one amazingly
> weird Javascript one. You can find references to both on
>
> http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/[/color]

Thanks. :) I am trying out the CSS hack, to see if that one can do what
I need, but so far I am getting some very peculiar results, probably
because I am not quite understanding how to implement it. The Javsscript
one looks quite complex, but if I can't get the CSS method to work, I'll
try that one out too. Somehow. :)

Linda