Browser survey

"Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@gmail.comwrote ...

Quote: I have posted a quick survey at <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/width.shtml>. There's only one question: select the widest line that fits in your normal browser window.

Nice idea ... a one man campaign to banish the horizontal scroll?

Do let ut have the 'final' results,

cheers.
--

Andrew
seo2seo.com
sick-site-syndrome.com

UK Residents:
STOP THE "10p Tax Ripoff"
Sign the petition to stop the government stealing from the
very poorest tell your friends about this petition:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/10penceband/

In our last episode, <4963e$4865ce2d$cef88ba3$11599@TEKSAVVY.COM>, the
lovely and talented Chris F.A. Johnson broadcast on
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:

Quote: I have posted a quick survey at <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/width.shtml>.

Quote: There's only one question: select the widest line that fits in your normal browser window.

Quote: Your assistance is appreciated.

Gee, they all fit in Lynx, and you could keep on until you reached
70-something digit numbers.


--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/Join Bytes!
Countdown: 206 days to go.

In alt.html, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

Quote: I have posted a quick survey at <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/width.shtml>. > There's only one question: select the widest line that fits in your normal browser window. > Your assistance is appreciated.

63

Nice idea...

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Windows

On Jun 28, 1:37*am, "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohn...@gmail.comwrote:

Quote: * * * * *I have posted a quick survey at

104

But if you are trying to get a "reading" for the general populous,
then this group is hardly a good sample.

Beauregard T. Shagnasty schreef:

Quote: In alt.html, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > Quote: > I have posted a quick survey at > <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/width.shtml>. >> > There's only one question: select the widest line that fits > in your normal browser window. >> > Your assistance is appreciated. > 63 > Nice idea... >

78

--
Rob Waaijenberg

"Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@gmail.comwrites:

Quote: There's only one question: select the widest line that fits in your normal browser window.

Why would I want to participate in a survey that does nothing but
propogate the myth that screen size should matter to HTML authors?

There is no "normal" browser window. Deal with it.

sherm--

--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net

On Jun 28, 10:29*am, Sherman Pendley <spamt...@dot-app.orgwrote:

Quote: Why would I want to participate in a survey that does nothing but propogate the myth that screen size should matter to HTML authors?

Oh ye of such little faith. Maybe the survey will prove your point
that there is no "standard size" and that the browser window size is
so random that it is meaningless to try to code for it.

Quote: There is no "normal" browser window. Deal with it.

And if you participate in the survey I believe you may help to prove
that once and for all. Or are you afraid to participate because the
results might show there are some "normal" sizes and you might be
wrong?

How is this survey different from / better than these?

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/200...ser-experience/

http://www.baekdal.com/reports/actual-browser-sizes/

On 28 Jun 2008, Rob Waaijenberg <robwaaijenberg@hotmail.comwrote:

Quote: Beauregard T. Shagnasty schreef: Quote: >In alt.html, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> Quote: >> I have posted a quick survey at >> <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/width.shtml>. >>> >> There's only one question: select the widest line that fits >> in your normal browser window. >>> >> Your assistance is appreciated. >> >63 >> >Nice idea... >> > 78

Ditto. Hey, maybe it's an omen. Like we should go into business together:
Waaijenberg and Neredbojias Widgets, Inc. Kinda catchy.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.net/
Great sights and sounds

Travis Newbury <TravisNewbury@hotmail.comwrites:

Quote: Or are you afraid to participate because the results might show there are some "normal" sizes and you might be wrong?

This is the part where I'm supposed to let you push my buttons, and go
take your survey to show I'm not afraid of the results, right?

Sorry bub, I'm not that stupid.

sherm--

--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net

On Jun 28, 12:12*pm, Sherman Pendley <spamt...@dot-app.orgwrote:

Quote: This is the part where I'm supposed to let you push my buttons, and go take your survey to show I'm not afraid of the results, right?

First, it's not my survey, second I really don't care what you do.

Quote: Sorry bub, I'm not that stupid.

I don't know you so I really can't make that call

On 2008-06-28, Sherman Pendley wrote:

Quote: "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@gmail.comwrites: > Quote: > There's only one question: select the widest line that fits > in your normal browser window. > Why would I want to participate in a survey that does nothing but propogate the myth that screen size should matter to HTML authors?

This is not measuring screen size or window size. It is measuring
the width of browser windows in ems. The screen or window size in
pixels is irrelevant, as is the user's font size.

While a good page may suffer somewhat when extreme sizes are used,
and should degrade gracefully when they are, pages may be
optimized for a certain range. The purpose of this survey is to
determine how wide this range should be.

In practice, I don;t think this information will make a
significant difference to the way my pages are coded.

Quote: There is no "normal" browser window. Deal with it.

Agreed; and I am dealing with it.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster <http://Woodbine-Gerrard.com>
================================================== =================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Travis Newbury wrote:

Quote: On Jun 28, 10:29 am, Sherman Pendley <spamt...@dot-app.orgwrote: Quote: >Why would I want to participate in a survey that does nothing but >propogate the myth that screen size should matter to HTML authors? > Oh ye of such little faith. Maybe the survey will prove your point that there is no "standard size" and that the browser window size is so random that it is meaningless to try to code for it. > Quote: >There is no "normal" browser window. Deal with it. > And if you participate in the survey I believe you may help to prove that once and for all. Or are you afraid to participate because the results might show there are some "normal" sizes and you might be wrong? > >

Not at all. Such a survey is pointless. Those who have been around for
a while have learned that. Newbies need to be taught it over and over
again.

Design the page correctly and the content adjusts itself to any window
size within reason.

I'm not afraid to participate. It's just now worth my time. But you
are tacky and manipulative for even suggesting such a thing.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
Join Bytes!
==================

On 2008-06-28, Andrew Heenan wrote:

Quote: "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@gmail.comwrote ... Quote: > I have posted a quick survey at > <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/width.shtml>. > There's only one question: select the widest line that fits > in your normal browser window. > Nice idea ... a one man campaign to banish the horizontal scroll?

Nope. To eliminate horizontal scroll, you do not specify any
widths.

This is to get a better idea of what the typical viewer will see.

For example, I am designing a page with three columns of text. In
my typical window, the columns are narrower than I like. They are
still very readable, but I prefer to have more text. If I find
that most people will see even less than I do, I may rethink the
page; if the majority see more than I do, I'll leave it.

Quote: Do let ut have the 'final' results,

There is a running total at
<http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/width.cgi>.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster <http://Woodbine-Gerrard.com>
================================================== =================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

On Jun 28, 3:03*pm, "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohn...@gmail.comwrote:

Quote: Quote: Nice idea ... a one man campaign to banish the horizontal scroll? * * Nope. To eliminate horizontal scroll, you do not specify any * * widths. * * This is to get a better idea of what the typical viewer will see. * * For example, I am designing a page with three columns of text.

If you have 3 columns of text then it sounds like you need to be
looking at Flexible width sites rather than worrying about it.

On Jun 28, 2:53*pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:

Quote: Not at all. *Such a survey is pointless. *Those who have been around for a while have learned that. *Newbies need to be taught it over and over again. > Design the page correctly and the content adjusts itself to any window size within reason.

Well that is one way to design,the other is to have it be fixed
width. Both are equally correct based on the website.

And before we start another boring thread, lets just agree we have
different opinions about what is "correct"

Travis Newbury wrote:

Quote: On Jun 28, 2:53 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote: Quote: >Not at all. Such a survey is pointless. Those who have been around for >a while have learned that. Newbies need to be taught it over and over >again. >> >Design the page correctly and the content adjusts itself to any window >size within reason. > Well that is one way to design,the other is to have it be fixed width. Both are equally correct based on the website. >

Yep, amateurs design fixed width sites. Professionals design sites
which resize themselves.

Quote: And before we start another boring thread, lets just agree we have different opinions about what is "correct"

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
Join Bytes!
==================

On 2008-06-28, Travis Newbury wrote:

Quote: On Jun 28, 3:03*pm, "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohn...@gmail.comwrote: Quote: Quote: Nice idea ... a one man campaign to banish the horizontal scroll? >* * Nope. To eliminate horizontal scroll, you do not specify any >* * widths. >* * This is to get a better idea of what the typical viewer will see. >* * For example, I am designing a page with three columns of text. > If you have 3 columns of text then it sounds like you need to be looking at Flexible width sites rather than worrying about it.

Any page I design *is* flexible width (with the exception of the
survey page). That's not the point.

I want to know how what I see in my browser window compares with
what others see. If most people see less text than I do, I will
probably abandon my 3-column design. If, as I suspect, most see
more, then the design will work better for most people than it
does for me -- and for me it is readable, but not quite optimum.

Quote: For example, I am designing a page with three columns of text.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster <http://Woodbine-Gerrard.com>
================================================== =================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

On Jun 28, 4:01*pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:

Quote: Quote: Well that is one way to design,the other is to have it be fixed width. *Both are equally correct based on the website. Yep, amateurs design fixed width sites. *Professionals design sites which resize themselves.

Yea, those damn highly paid amateurs...

Travis Newbury wrote:

Quote: On Jun 28, 4:01 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote: Quote: Quote: >>Well that is one way to design,the other is to have it be fixed >>width. Both are equally correct based on the website. >Yep, amateurs design fixed width sites. Professionals design sites >which resize themselves. > Yea, those damn highly paid amateurs...

Yep, those amateurs who are screwing their clients, telling the clients
they are "professionals".

Just because you can find some sucker to pay you doesn't make you
"professional". It just means you got paid.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
Join Bytes!
==================

On Jun 28, 5:05*pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:

Quote: Yep, those amateurs who are screwing their clients, telling the clients they are "professionals". Just because you can find some sucker to pay you doesn't make you "professional". *It just means you got paid.

Yea, suck doesn't it...

Travis Newbury wrote:

Quote: On Jun 28, 5:05 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote: Quote: >Yep, those amateurs who are screwing their clients, telling the clients >they are "professionals". >Just because you can find some sucker to pay you doesn't make you >"professional". It just means you got paid. > Yea, suck doesn't it...

Yep, con artists can usually find a sucker who will pay. Fortunately,
professionals stand out. Much of that is the quality of their work.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
Join Bytes!
==================

On Jun 28, 8:41*pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:

Quote: No, it doesn't. *It means they don't KNOW what they want. *

why of course...

Quote: But in the meantime, what I do care about is that you and the likes of you give professionals a bad reputation.

Yea, that's me, just giving all you "professionals" a bad name....
Grow up and except the fact that not everyone want's what Jerry thinks
is best.

Travis Newbury wrote:

Quote: On Jun 28, 8:41 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote: Quote: >No, it doesn't. It means they don't KNOW what they want. > why of course... > Quote: >But in the meantime, what I do care about is that you and the likes of >you give professionals a bad reputation. > Yea, that's me, just giving all you "professionals" a bad name.... Grow up and except the fact that not everyone want's what Jerry thinks is best. >

Or maybe you should grow up and learn that you're not even a half-assed
web designer.

ROFLMAO!

I'll tell you what. Let's take one of your customers. Let me give him
my designs for his site. Wanna see how long they stay with you?

Then we'll turn it around. You can off your crap to one of my
customers. Wanna bet they stick with me?

I know you won't take the bet, though. You may be stoopid, but you
aren't that stoopid.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
Join Bytes!
==================

Travis Newbury <TravisNewbury@hotmail.comwrote:

Quote: >On Jun 28, 4:01=A0pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote: Quote: Quote: Well that is one way to design,the other is to have it be fixed width. =A0Both are equally correct based on the website. >Yep, amateurs design fixed width sites. =A0Professionals design sites >which resize themselves. > >Yea, those damn highly paid amateurs...

The computer industry is full of cowboys. Just because they blag some
poor sucker into paying out lots of money for shoddy work does not
make the shoddy work any less shoddy, or the "amateur" any less
professional in their trade.

Matt


--
The Probert Encyclopaedia
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com

On 2008-06-28, Sherman Pendley wrote:

Quote: Why would I want to participate in a survey that does nothing but propogate the myth that screen size should matter to HTML authors?

If it matters to readers (and it does), then it *should* matter to HTML
authors.

It's not a myth. It's a poor designer who assumes (for example) that
everyone has a 23" screen on an Apple computer.

But a more useful survey would be targetted at his own target audience.

but don't mind me - if you think visitors are happy with horizontal scrolls,
carry on. I'll happily take bouncing visitros off your hands

;o)


--

Andrew
seo2seo.com
sick-site-syndrome.com

UK Residents:
STOP THE "10p Tax Ripoff"
Sign the petition to stop the government stealing from the
very poorest tell your friends about this petition:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/10penceband/

On Jun 29, 12:26*am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:

Quote: Or maybe you should grow up and learn that you're not even a half-assed web designer. ROFLMAO!

Yea, I just suck.

Quote: I'll tell you what. *Let's take one of your customers. *Let me give him my designs for his site. *Wanna see how long they stay with you?

Absolutely! Contact Chick-fil-a and tell then you have a great new
idea for their Bowl site. We are going to change the entire design to
an even more Flash based design in August. So this is a great time to
tell them that you have a better idea for their site. That gives you
a whole month to convert them. Please post the results of your
efforts.

Quote: Then we'll turn it around. *You can off your crap to one of my customers. *Wanna bet they stick with me?

Give me a url of one of your customers

Quote: I know you won't take the bet, though. *You may be stoopid, but you aren't that stoopid.

I took it Jerry, now put your money where your mouth is. Supply me
with a URL please.

On Jun 29, 12:26*am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:

Quote: I know you won't take the bet, though. *You may be stoopid, but you aren't that stoopid.

Oh Jerry, could the URL you supply be of the same caliber as Chick-fil-
a? I don't do Mom and Pop sites.

Thanks

On Jun 29, 3:30*am, (Matt Probert) wrote:

Quote: Quote: Yea, those damn highly paid amateurs... The computer industry is full of cowboys. Just because they blag some poor sucker into paying out lots of money for shoddy work does not make the shoddy work any less shoddy, or the "amateur" any less professional in their trade.

Did you proof read that before you pressed send?

Travis Newbury wrote:

Quote: On Jun 29, 12:26 am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote: Quote: >Or maybe you should grow up and learn that you're not even a half-assed >web designer. >ROFLMAO! > Yea, I just suck. > Quote: >I'll tell you what. Let's take one of your customers. Let me give him >my designs for his site. Wanna see how long they stay with you? > Absolutely! Contact Chick-fil-a and tell then you have a great new idea for their Bowl site. We are going to change the entire design to an even more Flash based design in August. So this is a great time to tell them that you have a better idea for their site. That gives you a whole month to convert them. Please post the results of your efforts. >

ROFLMAO! No, you didn't do that site. What a liar.

Quote: Quote: >Then we'll turn it around. You can off your crap to one of my >customers. Wanna bet they stick with me? > Give me a url of one of your customers > Quote: >I know you won't take the bet, though. You may be stoopid, but you >aren't that stoopid. > I took it Jerry, now put your money where your mouth is. Supply me with a URL please.

Sure. www.fcc.gov. Good luck.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
Join Bytes!
==================

Matt Probert wrote:

Quote: Travis Newbury <TravisNewbury@hotmail.comwrote: > Quote: >On Jun 28, 4:01=A0pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote: Quote: >>>Well that is one way to design,the other is to have it be fixed >>>width. =A0Both are equally correct based on the website. >>Yep, amateurs design fixed width sites. =A0Professionals design sites >>which resize themselves. >Yea, those damn highly paid amateurs... > The computer industry is full of cowboys. Just because they blag some poor sucker into paying out lots of money for shoddy work does not make the shoddy work any less shoddy, or the "amateur" any less professional in their trade. > Matt > > -- The Probert Encyclopaedia http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com

That's right, Matt. And did you look at the crap he supposedly created?

I KNOW he didn't have anything to do with that site.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
Join Bytes!
==================

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Quote: In alt.html, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > Quote: > I have posted a quick survey at > <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/width.shtml>. >> > There's only one question: select the widest line that fits > in your normal browser window. > 63 > Nice idea...

I think it's an interesting idea, too. But I get only 39.

--
Berg

"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.netwrote in message
news:FuKdnZuTOLI14PrVnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..

Quote: Sure. www.fcc.gov. Good luck. >

LMFAO! Horizontal scrollbar when mousing over a link in the footer. So,
really well designed variable width page, there, then?

On Jun 28, 5:05*pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:

Quote: Yep, con artists can usually find a sucker who will pay. *Fortunately, professionals stand out. *Much of that is the quality of their work. >

Why so bitter, dude?

..oO(nully)

Quote: >"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.netwrote in message >news:FuKdnZuTOLI14PrVnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. > Quote: >Sure. www.fcc.gov. Good luck. >> >LMFAO! Horizontal scrollbar when mousing over a link in the footer.

Sure. Especially since there's not even a hover style defined for those
links. Maybe you should check your own system.

Micha

"Michael Fesser" <netizen@gmx.dewrote in message
news:lj2f64h7ltofe34nbt2fvm0fhe6g6mg047@4ax.com...

Quote: .oO(nully) > Quote: >>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.netwrote in message >>news:FuKdnZuTOLI14PrVnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comcast.com. .. >> Quote: